Faith 2016 News

Is Donald Trump now a born-again Christian?

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump speaks to the media on the golf course at his Trump International Golf Links in Aberdeen, Scotland, on June 25, 2016. Photo courtesy of Reuters/Carlo Allegri

(RNS) Donald Trump has described himself as “Presbyterian and Protestant,” a “Sunday church person” and a collector of Bibles.

Now the presumptive Republican presidential nominee reportedly can add “born-again Christian” to that list, too, according to one of the members of Trump’s new evangelical advisory board.

RELATED: 7 conservative Christians who are not supporting Trump

Trump recently accepted a relationship with Jesus Christ as his Savior, making him a “baby Christian,” Focus on the Family founder James Dobson said in an interview posted Friday (June 24) to Michael Anthony’s website, Godfactor. Dobson and Anthony, pastor of Grace Fellowship in York, Pa., spoke after the candidate’s meeting Tuesday in New York City with nearly 1,000 evangelicals.

“He did accept a relationship with Christ. I know the person who led him to Christ, and that’s fairly recent. … I believe he really made a commitment, but he’s a baby Christian,” Dobson said.

Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort declined to comment on the report Sunday on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” saying, “I’m not going to speak to Donald Trump and his embrace of religion. You’ll have to talk to him about that.”

Trump himself has not spoken about a born-again experience or a new personal relationship with Christ.

Dobson told Anthony that Trump “doesn’t know our language,” noting the candidate spoke during the meeting about “religion,” but not “faith” and “belief.” Other words the candidate never used, according to transcripts: “Jesus,” “pray,” “Christ” and “Bible.”

“You gotta cut him some slack. He didn’t grow up like we did,” Dobson said.

Anthony responded with an allusion to the original “Damascus Road” conversion in the New Testament book of Acts. The Apostle Paul, then called Saul, had violently persecuted Christians before he encountered Jesus along the road to Damascus.

“I’m sure Saul when he became Paul didn’t know much of the language either,” he said.

Other Christians have responded on social media to the news of Trump’s reported come-to-Jesus moment with somewhat less enthusiasm.

Popular Christian author and blogger Rachel Held Evans put it bluntly in a tweet: “Oh give me a break. Donald Trump hasn’t been born again. The Religious Right has simply sold out.”

Evans pointed to the second chapter of James, which, among other things, includes the admonition “faith without deeds is dead.”

And in a blog post about Dobson’s statement, John Fea, chair of the history department at Messiah College in Grantham, Pa., called Trump’s meeting with evangelicals “the theo-political equivalent of money laundering.”

“Dobson and his gang are making Trump clean so that he is worthy of evangelical votes,” Fea said.

About the author

Emily McFarlan Miller

Emily McFarlan Miller is a national reporter for RNS based in Chicago. She covers evangelical and mainline Protestant Christianity.


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  • Is there any precedent of a presidential nominee becoming “born again” in the summer before the election?

  • You’d almost think that 2Rump was running for president and wanted the Christian vote.
    But then you’d also have to think that Dobson hasn’t learned a thing about trumpery in his many decades, and really doesn’t care about the issue as much as he cares about power money, and dominion..

  • It’s all a little bit of political prostitution, hallelujah hypocrite style. It’s all squirrel stew and kiss your own cousin with them. But their temporary shotgun wedding will all come undone when Trump loses to Clinton.

  • James Dobson is such a craven bigoted piece of sh!t to begin with. His endorsement of Trump could not lower my opinion of him. Someone whose own organization has already lost the war that gave it purpose. Now it’s just grifting for its own sake. one thing a grifters knows is another grifter.

  • ……..if Trump is a “born-again” Christian…then, Rush Limbaugh is the principle ballerina with the Bolshoi Ballet……..

  • I’m really hoping for a secular president who will protect the rights of ALL religions and non believers to be equal in the law, as we are now. If he says separation of church state is a myth, I’m done.

  • You mean, “when AMERICA loses to Clinton.”

    Hillary is not America’s friend. I think she and Bill may be enemy agents smuggled in by North Korea or something.

  • C’mon! Do you think many evangelicals will vote for Hillary? While she may be a Christian, her party is far removed from core beliefs. Is the goal to make Trump more palatable?

  • By this act Trump can claim the title of a pandering politician. To get elected he has to go to the dark side, however distasteful.

  • Born again is really born from above. No one is worthy and God calls whom He chooses.
    Donald may well call himself a born again Christian, I make no judgement, but, Once one is filled with The Holy Spirit, our words, our actions towards one another take a change. It’s no longer what “Ive” done but what God’s done for me. I forgive because I have received real for given essential for debts I owe but could never repay, yet Christ Jesus paid for all whom choose to believe on Him.
    Donald’s name calling , and pushing those down around him, especially when attacked, give credence to questions about his faith.

  • Hmm, do you need to already have goods to become bankrupt or just owe beyond ones means to repay?.
    Biblically , I believe we have sinned and continue to sin each day. Christ’s payment of His blood, atonement on the cross, is payment forever, in the eyes of God the Father.
    Otherwise Christ would have to be crucified daily, physically.

  • The Bible does not give wiggle room.
    Jesus said , I am the way, truth, life, no one comes to the Father except thru (by) Him.
    All other paths lead to separation from God, eternally.

  • the number of people who still believe that, that the bible is true is shrinking, down to about 17% now. I was raised a baptist and heard that my whole life. at some point there was enough evidence for me to put that book in it’s place as most of us have, either just a text written by men who wanted to invent a religion or a guidebook/philosophy to live by. I’m sure you are surrounded by people who take you seriously, be happy with that.

  • No, I’m not happy with the fact that any would reject Jesus.
    I can’t make anyone believer In Christ Jesus.
    All I can do is try to spread the gospel. Jesus does the saving.

  • We aren’t electing Presidents by political beliefs.
    Or should I say we shouldn’t be…

  • ……..great care should be taken not to be so “heavenly-minded” that we are no earthly good……….the religious right has long been thusly afflicted……

  • Jesus was a carpenter..
    Yes, a few think that sit back and God will take care of every need even if they do nothing.
    They will wake one day to find out we will work in heaven!

  • Since I don’t really know what is in the heart and mind of either candidate I am limited by what policies and actions I think they will pursue, their leadership potential, especially in foreign policy.

  • And this is why the Bible is not the basis of our laws and system of government. If you want a government run under notions of scripture and God’s will, there are plenty of them out there… the Middle East.

  • But religious freedom means, nobody ever has to care what you or anyone else thinks of Jesus.

    I personally like Jesus. The guy comes to mow my lawn every 2 weeks. But he pronounces it “Hey-Soos”.

  • Well a lot of evangelical core beliefs are so far removed from notions of constitutional liberties, modern existence, and even notions of human decency. I can see why a lot of politicians just don’t really want to court such a group. But then again I can see how some opportunist grifter types would love to have them as a voting bloc.

  • You have elected a Muslim as your president for 8 years and now you are concerned if Trump is a Christian? Give me a break

  • “Evangelical” does not equal “Christian,” no matter how much they pretend to be “The” Christians. They can quote all the scriptures they like, but as a group, their “Fruits” are as rotten as they come. And that means they really follow the other guy.

  • Hillary has connections, having taken bribes from just about every rich or powerful person on earth, except the Donald. There are some evils even a Clinton won’t touch.

  • …… have NO demonstrable evidence Obama is a Muslim…..and if he was… what……….your bigotry is pretty transparent Bubba…….

  • LOL.

    When people invoke the name Jesus, I often wonder what in Hades does the kid who sat next to me in Senior year Trig 20 years ago have to do with anything.

  • Nothing is more powerful than the Holy Spirit in the changing of hearts. so it certainly may have happened to Donald Trump. But I wouldn’t take Dobson’s word for it.

  • And, thanks to the Modern State, and, specifically, our Constitution, you have the right to believe whatever you want to believe about the bible or anything else. Not everybody believes in your bible, of course; in fact, not all believers believe in the bible the way you do. That’s so important to keep in mind when considering the greater society–especially one as complex as ours. I would just add that your view doesn’t seem to leave much room for Grace or Love.

  • I wouldn’t inquire too deeply into the contents of Limbaugh’s closet if I were you: I wouldn’t be surprised if it includes some size 20 tutus.

  • I’m not a Trump supporter, but many Christians continue to say he must be a certain way to be Christian. They continue to put you in a box and will never quite embrace you, unless you become like them.I think of President Carter who the evangelicals didn’t embrace because he was in the wrong political party.Our country is to diverse to say we must be a certain way.Until we view everyone as equals we will forever be divided.

  • You may consider the possibility that your idea of rejecting or accepting of Jesus may differ dramatically with what Jesus actually asks of us–or, at any rate, what the Gospel asks of us. You may have noticed that 2,000 years of church history tell a very ugly story of disagreement about that. Perhaps avoiding polarizing language about Jesus and the Gospel and the Bible might be a good place to start the ministry of reconciliation mentioned in the Epistle to the Ephesians, and which may reasonably be called the church’s job description.

  • I suspect that the closest Trump has ever come to being a born-again Christian is being a porn-again Christian (not that there’s anything wrong with that). And, unlike being a baC, which cannot be verified, being a paC can easily be verified by examining a persons internet surfing history and/or computer hard drive.

  • You said clearly in an earlier post that God calls those he wishes to be “born again” at more-or-less his pleasure. Now you are saying that anyone would reject Jesus.

    Which is it?

  • I’d say more of a case of dealing with a supernatural protection racket.

    “That’s a nice looking soul you’ve got there. Didn’t we help you get that soul awhile back? It’d be a terrible shame if something happened to it…”

  • ….you’re FOS & so is Trump…Trump has NO ability to be facetious…’s not who he is…a narcissistic personality disorder……

  • If she’s elected, that means christian sky-god wants it. All sorts of idiot evangelists and crazed bible-thumpers (that dolt Frank-Boy Graham comes to mind) are pushing hard for Trump and against Hillary and holding prayer rallies to sky fairy on the issue. When they get slapped down by sky-fairy (like they did on the gay marriage issue), I wonder what excuse they’ll come up with. christians are always good for a laff.

  • Phooey!!, So, my Jewish friends will go to Hell? To this I say, “Hogwash!” I have wonderful Muslim neighbors, who care for others, and are kind and compassionate, and live good lives, just like my Jewish friends.
    You, my friend, “proof text,” and pick and choose which parts of the Bible to believe.

  • I am Jewish also… 7 years in Hebrew School etc etc etc.
    My studies of the New testament brought me to believe that Jesus Christ is all He claimed to be,
    We all have wonderful friends who we want the best for them.
    All have the chance to accept of reject the free gift of salvation.
    Can we understand God in His fullness? No…
    But He loves us enough to pay the price for our disobedience.
    We have to accept the free gift.

    in John 3:28 and Acts 4:12 are your answers for you and your friends.
    The whole Bible Old and New screams it out..
    We sin and there must be payment From the first Adam to the last Adam.
    4:12 in the Amplified states .
    And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among people by which we must be saved [for God has provided the world no alternative for salvation].”

  • “Accepted a relationship with Jesus Christ…”

    Wey-yull, I guess benign neglect qualifies as a relationship.

    “Damascus Road”? Um, Didn’t Saint Paul stop collecting taxes on everybody, not just the rich?


  • Hang it up, Floyd.

    You’ve posted that same silly note all over the Internet, and the facts remain: Hillary is competent, decent, sane, intelligent, and well prepared to serve as President.

    Like her husband, she has a long career of good and useful public service.

    She has been investigated over and over, usually as a result of malicious and ungrounded accusations, and often at very great expense to the taxpayer. In every case she has been cleared of the slanders.

    Your North Korean thing is sorta cute, but it does emphasize that you’re a piker compared to the bigtime liars like Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump. You should find some other line of silliness where you’re not up against such skilled competition.


  • We need a separation of church and state because even among Christian Faith’s there are differences. God gave us choice and we’re not supposed to judge. Being forced to follow one religion is impossible. It goes against the Constitution and Jesus telling us not to judge or brag. Hillary has been a Methodist all her life, but it’s not her job to demand how others pray. Our faith is up to us, is personal and not to be used as an electoral tool.

  • There is nobody more obnoxious and irrational than a recent convert. They try too hard to impress people belonging to their new faith. To demonstrate they really belong. They also lack the humility and reflective nature to understand that not everyone wants to join their new glee club.

  • Unless a person has has the experiential experience of being filled with the Holy Spirit, there is nothing I can say about wanting. ” EVERYONE to share ” what they have had happen in their lives.
    It’s not being a new convert.. it’s a joy, happiness etc.
    41 years have passed, since my walk toward Christ began..
    It’s been 15 years since I was filled.
    There is no greater gift to share, in my opinion

  • Shorter version:
    I’m a Pepper.
    Wouldn’t you like to be a Pepper too?

    Religion is a lot like mint chocolate ice cream. Some people love the stuff, some people can’t stand it, some are indifferent. Though you may adore the stuff, it is quite inappropriate to declare why everyone else must like it.

  • You’re talking about the Dem program right? Open boarders with Mexico is a recipe for cheap yard men and maids. I’d like to see Dems champion more legal migration of bankers, scientists, software developers, writers. It won’t happen because these people would compete with jobs held by the self-proclaimed liberal intelligentsia.

  • Jimmy Carter is the finest example this nation has of a Christian president. I have great respect and love for him.

  • That’s one of the reasons I admire Rachel Held Evans. Remarkable writer and woman.

  • Someone never heard of an H-1B visa here.But it’s typical.

    Conservatives moaning about immigration seldom know jack squat about the actual laws involved or provide honest assessments of the situation.

  • you are actually making my point. Immigration for skilled, technical, white collar work is tightly regulated. Liberals are quick to cram “feel-good” policies on the working man as long as they do not experience any of the negative consequences.

  • H-1Bs are abused like a Catholic altar boy. Tightly regulated? Hardly. You have been fed a line of BS having nothing to do with realty.

    You want to support blue collar workers, support organized labor. Something conservative politicians hate with a passion. Demonizing people working for a living for far less than the average welfare recipients’ income is just a waste of effort. Try demonizing the people who fight efforts at paying people living wages. Who use public assistance as a way to avoid providing basic benefits. Who implement “right to work laws” to depress blue collar wages.

    What do conservatives offer working people? Scapegoats and ways to make their lives miserable.

  • H1 Bs are abused, but they are at least a check on flooding the supply of skilled labor from offshore. The only check on low-skilled labor is a secure border. It certainly will not help wages rise.
    As for the basic economics lesson…You are welcome.

  • No, louis. Your god according to your bible myths is not really about love, but rather is vicious and excessively punitive. He even punishes children for the actions of their parents. Shameful stuff. See Deuteronomy 5:9, as well as Numbers and much elsewhere in both testaments. Not a creature worthy of worship, and fortunately one that does not exist.

  • Rubbish, louis. That “price” goes against any reasonable modern judicial system. Punishing one group for the actions of others is shameful Your religion is horrid, and merely myth.

  • louis, in return, I would aim to show you that your beliefs are in an utter, absurd fiction. Why would a god need to sacrifice its “son” to save anything? That’s silly. Not only that, but the idea of sacrifice by such a claimed all-powerful being is simply nonsense. Also ask yourself why your god has kept his flock waiting anxiously for 2000 years -that’s no loving god, that your bible myths present.

  • I find it so interesting that everybody who posts against Christ is not stateing one fact to disprove Him or His claim to be part of the God Head or God Himself.
    He walked the earth, was cruxified , and rose again. He controlled the weather, raised the dead, healed the sick and fulfilled inumerous prophecies.
    My Bible says “In the beginning God”.
    If you dont believe God exists, then we really dont have a discussion do we?
    If your defintion of God allows you to make God in your own image, or He has to follow the rules you set up then you are your own God and again we dont have room for discussion do we?
    The preface of the article was questioning whether Donald Trump is ” Born again”?
    I tried to define Born again for those who do not read the Bible.
    I obviously touched some nerves so I will back off peacefully.
    Each and everyone “knows” whether they are “IN CHIST” or on the outside looking in.
    God bless you all.

  • LOL! The measures in our employment immigration system you think are there to protect American workers do the opposite. In the effort to appeal to the anti-immigration ignoramuses, they are filled with tons of loopholes and avenues for exploitation for employees.

    They not only permit importation of foreign white collar labor, but at less than market rates. Because the visas are based on the employer and not the employee or type of work, it chains the employee to one company with none of the possibility of mobility which ensures fairer wages. It also keeps workers from reporting occupational hazards and sexual harassment issues out of fear of losing their visas.

    “The only check on low-skilled labor is a secure border.”

    LOL! If your job is in danger from an illegal alien, someone who probably doesn’t speak the language and lacks a basic education, you are in bad shape from the outset. It means our education system has failed to provide you with even the lowest level of employability. Also it denotes the loss of power of organized labor to ensure wages and eligibility of employees. Even when states made efforts to make life and work difficult for illegal aliens, they could not find citizens willing to do the work. The check on low skilled labor is our economy. Where there is no demand for cheap labor, the supply dries up.

    If you wonder why you are working harder for stagnant or shrinking wages blame Conservatives. They have all but destroyed the power of organized labor. The only people who are actually bothering to look out for the working people.

  • God knows, but we’ll have to judge it through the credible evidences of the one who professes such faith. Secondly, one does not simply accept Christ, it is Christ who has accepted the believer and this was done before the world was formed. The believer does receive Him, however, by the work of the Holy Spirit and the the hearing of the gospel.

  • Trump to the LGBT community: “I got your back.”

    Trump to Evangelicals: “I got your back, too.”

  • If Trump is truly a “BAC”, then have him in public confess and repent for his reported rape of a child and his other miss-deeds. Also, since he gives to the state then he must release his taxes so we can see how much he contributes to charity. It is not the claim but in the life as by their fruits you shall know them, James Dobson. Focus on that!
    I hope Trump can understand the 4th amendment.

  • As Christians, the less we should expect from Mr. Trump, if he indeed had the experience, is to bare the fruit. Many are claiming to be born again but still living according to the world and the old man. By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples (John 15:8).

  • Many reject the call of God.
    Jesus did not say you must be good or He weighs our good works vrs our evil works.
    He said ” You MUST be born again”
    Read Roman’s 10: 9-10
    if you want a better understanding my poor words.
    May God grant you wisdom to understand His words of eternal life to you..

  • Yes.. milk before meat , I agree.
    My point is with out the Gospel being preached, it’s my words not Christ’s.

  • The worth of souls is great in the sight of God. If Trump is now a Christian, that should be wonderful news! It’s like those naysayers on Twitter don’t want him to be saved! Meant to post this at the bottom, didn’t know there were more comments after this. That was a reply to the OP, not to prgrsiv-II. To him/her I will say this: Personally, I like James Dobson.

  • …….Trump is a narcissistic personality disorder……if he is “saved” it certainly has not impacted his verbal behavior & deportment… a mental health clinician for 35 yrs my experience tells me he’s taking Jesus & his earthly followers for a “ride”… way…his way…not His way….

  • It’s a matter of defining it. What parts you take from it to make you a better person and of course what type of life experiences you have that make you believe. Some people just cannot open their eyes to it and are closed off. You don’t have to believe everything written in the bible. Still i believe having faith is fairly important and having the ability to love others. A lot of our empathy actually comes from the teachings if taught in the correct way. In Regards to Trump, religion isn’t going to change his spots.

  • for awhile now neurologists have been able to watch the human brain work in real time via fMRI. they have mapped most of the brain now, and we can say a region of our brains is devoted to compassion/empathy for others. many other species are also born with compassion and a need for community. We are born with empathy/compassion already baked in, we have it from birth long before we are taught religion or could read at all. There are millions of people all over the world who are kind compassionate people who love and take care of others, who are non christians and non believers. Our empathy does not come from an old book.

  • I am coming to this late, but nowhere does the Bible talk about God punishing one group for the actions of others… Anywhere. We are each accountable for our own life and CHRIST paid the penalty of everyone’s sins whether they choose to acknowledge/accept/believe that or not. It is a personal decision with a personal consequence. No one can do anything to affect my salvation or lack there of but me. It is common for people to judge God by the actions of some who claim to know Him. It is unfortunate when that happens. It would be like judging me for my daughter’s mistakes or bad behavior. I want someone to get to know me and then judged on my own merits if they choose. God is perfect and sinless and loving and just. If he is seen as less than that it is due to OUR human view, generally affected by a couple of things: 1) someone’s prayer going unanswered the way they had hoped and them getting angry with God as a result or 2) having a bad experience with someone who doesn’t represent God well. We have all sinned (lying, cheating, being respectful to our parents, etc.) God is holy and can’t be around sin. Christ’s death and resurrection took care of our sin making us holy and pure in God’s eyes when we believe, allowing those of us who have received that free gift to have deep and personal relationship with him anytime anywhere. The joy and gratefulness when someone experiences this freedom in a REAL way is palpable. The thing is, believers are still human and not perfect… Meaning we still sin although it grieves us when we do. I would challenge you to look into who God is for yourself. If you ask Him to reveal Himself to you and you really open your heart to that He will. Reading the New Testament will be a great place to start. Hope you find out who the REAL God is and find true joy in Him.

  • Instinct (something naturally within us) is different than being a nice person (compassionate) which is different from being changed from the inside out and living for others’ ETERNAL well-being, (what Christians are called to do in sharing the Gospel, or Good News of Jesus Christ.)

    Your user name is interesting. I would assume you would be familiar with the thousands of historical records outside of the Bible that record Jesus and His miraculous birth, life, death and resurrection? If you are, then to make the statements that you do would seem contrary to understanding those writings and that Jesus, and that “old book,” are phenomenal and awe-imspiring… Are you familiar with the staggering odds below? (Read the rest at the link below, SO AWESOME!)

    “A number of years ago, Peter W. Stoner and Robert C. Newman wrote a book entitled Science Speaks. The book was based on the science of probability and vouched for by the American Scientific Affiliation. It set out the odds of any one man in all of history fulfilling even only eight of the 60 major prophecies (and 270 ramifications) fulfilled by the life of Christ. The probability that Jesus of Nazareth could have fulfilled even eight such prophecies would be only 1 in 1017. That’s 1 in 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000. Stoner claims that that many silver dollars would be enough to cover the face of the entire state of Texas two feet deep. Now I’ve been to Texas. I’ve driven for days to get across Texas. Texas is a very big state. Who in his right mind would suppose that a blindfolded man, heading out of Dallas by foot in any direction, would be able, on his very first attempt, to pick up one specifically marked silver dollar out of 100, 000, 000, 000, 000, 000?”

    Read more at:







  • Nope.

    But I find the majority of Catholics (and people from old mainstream faiths) have a sane attitude towards their religious leaders. Don’t take them any more seriously than you are forced to by circumstances.

  • Clearly you either ignore the Founders innumerable writings on what they believed or choose to ignore same. Our laws are of course based on Biblical principles, and even the Teachings of Jesus himself. Even Ben Franklin believed this to be the best way to have good, law abiding, moral citizens who could ‘rule’ themselves with internal restraint. You, might want to look at “The Life & Morals of Jesus Christ by Thomas Jefferson.” This book was printed by an act of Congress, given to every member of House & Senate, and every school age child in America until 1954. Also, at one point there were more than 6 Church/Congregations meeting in the Capital building during the 1800’s. Why? Because it was the largest public building until the 1860’s. The evidence is clear that the only ‘separation’ the Founders intended is that the government shall not restrict religious activities nor dictate which Church was the official ‘religion’ approved by the Federal Govt. The evidence is overwhelming against the present day version of S.O.C.&S. The Middle East religions are man-made religions, cults even because they do not ascribe to the deity of Jesus. I wish you well, truly…..

  • Clearly you want to treat our laws and history like Bible study rather than as the study of law and history. 7 of 10 Commandments could never be considered laws of our land because they would violate all sorts of civil liberties. Notably the First Amendment rights.

    “Our laws are of course based on Biblical principles, and even the Teachings of Jesus himself.”

    So clearly you cannot cite to a single example of anything specifically Biblical or Christian in our laws. Your statement is one which is made frequently but nobody can be bothered to elaborate or explain what they really mean by it. You are trying to imply that Christians are owed some measure of power or respect by dint of their faith in the American system. A plain reading of our laws says otherwise. Most notably the 1st Amendment.

    “Even Ben Franklin believed this to be the best way to have good, law abiding, moral citizens who could ‘rule’ themselves with internal restraint”

    My guess is you would produce out of context quote-mining to support such a statement.

    “The evidence is clear that the only ‘separation’ the Founders intended is that the government shall not restrict religious activities nor dictate which Church was the official ‘religion’ approved by the Federal Govt.”

    NOT EVEN CLOSE! Without a true separation of church and state, neutrality to ALL religion in government, the free exercise of religion is impossible. Our Founders were well aware that when religion is entangled with government, it becomes a whip hand and by its nature engages in sectarian discrimination. Your reading of the Establishment Clause is so reductive as to be completely useless. Of course people who are against the free exercise of religion (for all faiths but theirs) would come up with such an interpretation. Time and again when the issue is brought before the Supreme Court, they have been far far more expansive in application of the Establishment Clause than your self-serving version.

    BTW, the only writings which can really tell you “Founder Intent” for the Constitution are the Federalist Papers. Contemporaneous writings specifically to explain basic Constitutional interpretation and intent to the public. Everything else you care to cite will amount to nothing more than quote mining, proof-texting and wild interpolation.

    But the real interpretation of the Constitution isn’t done by such wild guesswork and self-serving proof texting (remember Law is not Bible study). Its done by the Judiciary. The people specifically given the role of interpreting the Constitution in light of present conflicts of law presented before them. Their interpretations are binding on all Americans. Your opinions are not.

    “The Middle East religions are man-made”

    All religions are man made. We have no living gods walking the earth founding religions.

  • Trump calls ‘hosts’ ‘ little crackers’….he knows NADA about the church. When are Trumpsters going to wake up see that this sorry excuse for a human is a con man extraordinaire. We will be living in misery, if he is elected, until he’s booted out the WH doors on his ass. ( I just hope the process of impeachment would be speeded up for him). Scary times for the USA and the World to think he’s gotten this far. ?

  • So true. NO ONE should shove their religious beliefs down ANYONE’S throats. There are many different religions and we should not be made to feel guilty if we don’t believe in YOUR religion. You should respect all peoples and whatever religion they belong to it believe in. Trump is one of the most DEPLORABLE humans to ever walk this land of ours.

  • My dear, you didn’t even bother to look up Deuteronomy 5:9, which the poster gave as one of many examples:

    King James Version:
    “Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me”.

    God orders Moses to kill every Midianite woman who was no longer a virgin. (many of these women would obviously have been pregnant) (Numbers 31:15-18)

    God promises to destroy the infants of Samaria and rip open the stomachs of pregnant women.

    “The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.” (Hosea 13:16)

    Along the same lines, God allows the pregnant women of Tappuah to be ripped open.
    “At that time Menahem, starting out from Tirzah, attacked Tiphsah and everyone in the city and its vicinity, because they refused to open their gates. He sacked Tiphsah and ripped open all the pregnant women.” (2 Kings 15:16)

    God commands the killing of infants and nursing babies.
    “Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.” (1 Samuel 15:3)

    God repays your enemies by destroying their babies.
    “Happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us. He who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.” (Psalms 137:8-9)

    Please read your own bible before spouting nonsense.

    The truly “pro-life” position comes from conscience (which is why so many ethical people are Vegans who also do NOT support abortion of sentient unborn human children), not the bible. If a person really get their morals from the Bible, be afraid — you never know what God might tell them to do next, because God commanded just about every evil imaginable in the Bible.

  • “Milk before meat”. That is a repugnant, speciesist statement commonly touted all throughout christian religions…further proof of your ingrained view of non-human animal species as object commodity property and of the fallaciousness of your religion (any religion that does not teach kindness to all creatures is a sham).

    Instead of teaching love and therefore to not harm all of God’s sentient beings who share our planet as fellow guests, instead, religion teaches it is fine to murder for an unnecessary consumed item or perceived benefit to humans who are hailed as more important than all other life on Earth (according to religion). We need neither cow’s milk nor a murdered animal’s flesh (and only human breast milk as a baby, after which we are weaned): breeding and murdering animals is detrimental to our health, the environment, the animals, the planet, our ethics, propagates world hunger and prevents true world peace. Why does health, the environment, the animals, planet, ethics, world hunger and world peace not matter to you? Why does a book (written by humans which tells you who God is, what God’s nature is and what God thinks of non-human animals) dictate your morality over your own conscience?

  • I pray the Donald experienced the infilling of the Holy Spirit. I know that from personal experience, and watching and talking to others who are blessed , the experience is palpable, life changing , wondrous and impossible not to talk about.
    Lastly, we don’t accept Him, He calls us into a relationship with Him and the
    Word states “those He calls. He also teaches.
    We have been saved by Grace.. our mouths are filled with praise, not deceit or lying etc.
    Let’s watch Mr Trump and not judge but rightfully decern.

  • Here is the thing. When you spout Bible versus out of context and have no real understanding of the character of God it is simply untruth you are spreading.

    God is perfect, righteous, JUST AND thankfully long-suffering. Meaning he puts up with our stupid shenanigans for a VERY long time. He ALWAYS leaves room for redemption.

    Most of what happened in the OT, the only versus you have shared by the way, happened after centuries of VERY evil, un-redemptive in any way, behavior by particular groups of people ie. those sacrificing children to idols, raping and sodomizing at will, murdering without consequence, etc.

    When one tries to explain what one doesn’t REALLY know, from study and a real desire to understand Old Testament history, the Bible, God – which all need to be understood beyond a verse or two conveniently Googled, or abused regularly out of context to make a point – those who DO study and know more realize that those spouting things of which they do not really know are doing just that – spouting things of which they do not know.

  • No, my dear Christian friends. Brothers and Sisters in Christ, Trump is NOT a Christian. He mocks the very foundations of Christianity in his words & deeds. He lies about sharing our faith, which is the most precious thing we possess.

    “These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me” (Matthew 15:8).

    “If a person thinks that he is religious but can’t control his tongue, he is fooling himself. That person’s religion is worthless” (James 1:26).

    “Those who say that they are in the light but hate other believers are still in the dark” (1 John 2:9).

    “They claim to know God, but they deny him by what they do. They are detestable, disobedient, and unfit to do anything good” (Titus 1:16)

    “Whoever says, ‘I know him,’ but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person” (1 John 2:4)

  • Dear Fellow Christians, this election is not just about the Supreme Court, or any other single issue. It is about the preservation of America as we know it. And a Trump presidency would utterly destroy us — and very likely the world. His core temperament & political inexperience would put us all in extreme danger. Our very lives are at stake. Yes, we need someone in the Oval Office that can help in those areas about which we all care as Christians, but our hopes and dreams as Christians cannot be realized through Trump. There is a tragic difference between what Christians want and what he wants. Moreover, he mocks the very foundation of Christian values in both word and deed, while at the same time claiming to be Christian. This must not be tolerated. Trump is not a Christian, nor does he represent the Christian faith in any way.

  • Actually the laws of this country were based upon biblical principles. And all the founding father let’s believed in one this: that the Bible was to have suoreme authority in the country

  • And who are we to decide whether someone made a commitment of faith in a Christ- ultimately that is God’s decision not ours. Let him who is without sin cast the first sin

  • Then how come people like you clam up so suddenly when I ask what was so specifically biblical or Christian about the constitution?

    Nobody seriously entertained any form of religious dogma as a basis of our laws or government. The 1st amendment and article IV both made it clear that such notions are not to be considered.

  • I have written a dissertation on the first amendment, and that is not the reason the first amendment was written. It was written to prevent a national church from being built much like the Church of England. This has never happened. It was also written to prevent the government from interfering in the religious expression of its citizens. The government is already doing this in attempting to call any form of religious speech as hate speech. As for comments like “people like you”, is very stereotypical and not acceptable. You do not know me and if you did you would know that I speak my mind. I speak up on these things.

  • Your dishonestly reductive reading of the first amendment is in line with Dominionists. People with zero respect for religious freedom.

    Your view of the establishment clause was never considered a correct one by anyone seeking to apply it. Separation of church and state ensures free exercise of religion. The two are inseparable. A government somehow beholden to a given faith like Christianity will not protect religious freedom for other faiths. Your responses indicate your belief in religious freedom only extends to your kind of Christian.

  • Your comments based only upon opinion and attacks. I know what I speak. My opinions are based upon extensive research of the actual writings of the founding fathers not narrow minded bigotism who wants to win an argument.

  • You already flat out lied about the establishment clause and the notion that the Bible is meant as a supreme authority of our laws. You are copying the kind of phony pseudo historical BS Dominionists like David Barton have published extensively about.

    You made it clear you neither understand religious freedoms or actively oppose them in service of your Christian faith. Anyone with an appreciation of our system, history and freedoms would find your view offensive to their sensibilities. If being honest with you is bigoted so be it.

    BTW originalism is one of the biggest crocks of sh_t masquerading as legal discourse today. It posits the idea that we as a nation have learned nothing in the last 200+ years and that 18th Century America was a perfect ideal. Law as Bible study. Founders as saints instead of the politicians they were.

    It’s telling that you still can’t tell me anything specifically biblical that is in our constitution. Your original assertion is something said frequently but never supported when questioned about it.

  • Separation of Church and State IS a myth, sir. And we are not currently equal under the law. If we were, Christians like Kim Davis and Aaron and Melissa Klein wouldn’t be being persecuted for their faith.

  • Except that those nations are not run according to God’s Word; rather, they are run according to a gross misinterpretation of the Qur’an.

  • Read the writings and pronouncements of the founders to see where they stood on the relationship between Christian faith and government.

  • if they believe that it would be written into our constitution. the people who wrote our constitution left diaries and noted from the convention so we know where our laws came from, documents and constitutions before ours from states who already had separation of church and state. there are no governing documents that support your contention.

    you really shouldn’t get your american history from your pastor.

  • The vast majority of evangelicals believe in freedom for all faiths.

    “Now fear the Lord and serve him with all faithfulness. Throw away the gods your ancestors worshiped beyond the Euphrates River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord.” (Joshua 24:14:15)

    Separation of Church and State has NOT guaranteed freedom of religion. Ask Kim Davis or Aaron and Melissa Klein.

  • They don’t have to be written in the Constitution. Go to www dot free2pray dot info/fivefounderquotes dot html.

  • That is a nonsense answer. Every time Christians like yourself make such statements they use quote mining or proof-texting out of its original context. Plus it doesn’t answer the question about showing me anything specific
    to our given laws or Constitution which point to specifics of Christian
    religious belief.
    You can’t say, “X law demonstrates Biblical concepts
    of ….”. Its simply not there. Hence the overgeneralized nonsense pronouncements.

    If you wanted to know the original intent of Constitutional text, you go to the Federalist papers or go home. The Federalist papers were written specifically to explain legal intent of the Constitution to the public. It would be fun for Christian fundamentalists to explain how rabidly anti-clerical Thomas Paine somehow supported a religious based government in his writings.

  • The US isn’t run on God’s word either. Nor is any democracy. Democracy requires religious freedom. Religious freedom does not exist when government is entangled with any given religion. In fact running a country based on God’s word is mostly seen in dictatorships in the Middle East.

    Religious freedom means nobody ever has to give a damn what you think God’s word is, nor can be compelled to care. Such concepts are hardwired into the Constitution. Too bad you don’t appreciate such nice things.

  • in 1878 in the supreme court decision of Reynolds, (about polygamy) the court looked deep into the meaning and intention of the 1st amendment. they decided against polygamy based on founder’s writings that freedom of religion is in the mind and only applies to actions that do not offend the common good, our laws. freedom of religion does not cover human sacrifice or preaching beliefs from govt positions. Courts have also said that the definition of ‘establishing a religion’ includes the appearance to an objective observer of govt favoring one religion over others. If govt employees were given the right to not serve ppl they didn’t agree with then what’s to stop them from not serving blacks, atheists, non christians? our govt was established to serve us all all the time, regardless of the beliefs of the clerk who took the job knowing she had to serve everyone equally.

    If you want special privileges for christians that’s a theocracy, then just say so.

  • So the truth comes out: you’re an atheist. That being said, most evangelicals don’t want to impose the Ten Commandments on people. We just want the freedom to practice our religion, including the freedom not to enable sodomite faux marriage, something your precious “separation of church and state” is not doing a good job of.

  • I could care less what you think of my religion. I DO care when anti-Christian bigots threaten me and other Christians with draconian punishments for opposing what God calls abominable! (I think ya’ know what I mean.)

  • please link me to where any of the principle founds said jesus was their savior, that they believed in his resurrection of died for our sins? they liked jesus teachings but not the teachings about him, they liked his philosophy as it is the same as most religions, love your neighbor. Jefferson also wrote another book, the Jefferson bible where he edited out every mention of resurrection, miracles, and the deity of jesus (I have a copy).

    between 1776 and 1833 every colony or state changed their constitutions to include separation of church and state and complete religious freedom for every religion.

    you write like you want us to be a christian theocracy, then what would you do to get rid of non christians and non believers, how far would you go?

  • “You can’t say, ‘X law demonstrates Biblical concepts of ….'”

    I’m not trying to, sir. I’m simply pointing out that our founders did not intend to excise religion from the public square, or from discussion about our laws. Our founders did NOT intend to put religion in one corner and government in another corner, with Donald Trump’s wall between them. They simply didn’t.

  • “The vast majority of evangelicals believe in freedom for all faiths.”

    What a load of bull! They want special privileges for their sect and deny rights to others. Evangelical opposition to building houses of worship of other faiths or even recognizing religions other than Christianity in any fashion make your assertion laughably untrue.

    They want to impose their views on others, especially views giving them some sort of permission to attack others. Calling the malicious nonsense of Kim Davis or the Kleins acts of religious freedom shows you do not understand the meaning of the term. Religious freedom does not mean “Christians can do anything they want against others”. They had as much to do with religious freedom as I would if I sacrificed you and your family to the great God Cthulhu.

    Kim Davis and the Kleins can go eff themselves. They wrapped themselves up in religion to justify bigotry and attacks on others.

  • “You can’t say, ‘X law demonstrates Biblical concepts of ….'”
    I’m not trying to”

    Yes you are! You are saying our nation and laws are run on Christian principles and beliefs. You are saying it is founded on Biblical principles and God’s word. You are chiming in to support someone who said “the Bible was to have supreme authority in the country”

    You can’t point to a single example of that in our laws and government.

    “Our founders did NOT intend to put religion in one corner and government
    in government in another corner, with Donald Trump’s wall between them.
    They simply didn’t.”

    Yes they did! They were rather clear on the subject. They saw from examples that any given religion in the corner of government means that other religions are excluded. That entangling religion with government leads to sectarian discrimination. The separation of church and state protects the integrity of both. You cannot protect free exercise of religion when one faith is given preference and entangled with government.

    If you want a theocratic government, just come out and say it. Don’t be so damn dishonest!

  • You don’t care what I think about your religion. But you want to coerce me to follow its arbitrary rules under force of law. Stop trying to crucify yourself. You can’t ever get that last nail in.

    Christian bigots like yourself have this aversion to rule of law, treating other people as human beings and basic notions that not everyone has to follow their ideas. If you think following laws of general application and anti-discrimination laws are some kind of attack on your religious belief, you are just being self-entitled and whiny. The world doesn’t revolve around your beliefs. Nobody has to suffer attacks under the guise of what you think God’s word is.

  • Being an atheist doesn’t make me a liar. But lying seems to be necessary for Evangelical efforts at politics and law. You want to use religion as an excuse to attack people. You want legal permission to do it. Calling such behavior “freedom of religion” insults the term. You obvious do not know what it means.

    Your freedom to practice your religion doesn’t entitle you to discriminate in open commerce, to deny people their rightful access to government services, to interfere with the personal decisions of others, or violate their civil liberties.

    Separation of church and state ensures that nobody is given special privileges above the law for belonging to a given faith (as you seek).

  • Quote mining founders out of context. You are trying to treat politicians like saints and their writings like Bible study to be proof-texted.

    Either you need to quote the Federalist Papers on the subject or you are just making ridiculous leaps of inference (based on dishonest interpretations of political speaking).

  • Donald Trump may think he’s born-again; others may also think so, but he absolutely is NOT in word and deed. Anyone who’s known born-again Christians knows Trump doesn’t come close to acting and speaking like such a person. If the conversion were truly IN HIS HEART, he would NOT be able to say and do what he does. And you can take that to the bank!

  • if its NOT a myth… then find it and do share! … for it IS a myth and nothing more than a liberal media creation. NOT in the Bill of rights OR constitution.

  • It’s sad that some would prefer america be a christian theocracy that allows religious freedom to christians while taking it from all others. We cannot have complete religious freedom without separating it from govt intervention. I hope you find the christian stronghold you seek so you can reject all other ideas you disagree with by rule of law.

  • instaed of attacking with your pre sups.. ANSWER THE QUESTION… i noticed you didnt … ( sorry,…CANT)

  • The one world church is what your ideology is leading to. Something we do not want. None of us. You are not God. He can see where a path will lead. If we do not follow His Word we can so easily be led astray on a path that seems right to us but leads to our downfall. Just as someone who wants to end up at a certain place should have a map rather than trusting to their own ” sense of direction” we should trust that God gives us good direction in the Bible. How do you think this nation got so blessed and progressive? It WAS INDEED BUILT UPON BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES.

  • See what we have by being so afraid to tread on the toes of any other faith? ISIS beheading people with impunity. Not ALL religions are loving and peaceful just because they purport themselves to be.

  • Since when do you see Christians ” doing what they want to others”. ? You are delusional. You would undoubtedly seek to enable and support those who would force their religion on everyone upon threat of death. They call Christians “infidels” and chant “death to the infidels”. When was the last time you saw Christians beheading people in the name of Jesus?

  • Since they feel the need to chime in and attack the civil liberties of others.

    “You would undoubtedly seek to enable and support those who would force their religion on everyone upon threat of death. ”

    That is your position. Hence your If you are claiming our Constitution must follow “biblical principles” or “separation of church and state is a myth”, you are attacking the fundamentals of our government and freedom. You are demanding special privileges for people of your faith. You are demanding people follow the tenets of your faith under the full force of the law.

    “When was the last time you saw Christians beheading people in the name of Jesus?”

    1990’s Rwanda and Yugoslavia. In the US, they prefer bombing, shooting, burning and lynching people.

  • The only difference between ISIS and Dominionists is access to heavy weapons and the chaos of a civil war to operate in. NO religion is loving and peaceful when they have the apparatus of power. When religion and government are entangled it always leads to an evil result.

  • I was “born again” when I was 8 years old. And though I was raised in church, went to church whenever the doors were open, and knew the Christian vocabulary, I didn’t really KNOW anything. And by my late teens I had really gone off the church stuff. Did I get unborn again somewhere along the line? Not according to my understanding of the Bible. Once a person truly repents and accepts the Gospel of Jesus Christ he is saved.

    Yes, I sinned. Yes, I backslid. And yes, I did some horrible things. And then I rediscovered the love of God, and having freshly repented of the sins I had freely committed between 8 years of age and that moment, I rededicated my life to God. And I have come to understand I continued to be “born again” even though I went through those horrible years in my life.

    Mr. Trump had religious exposure throughout his life but never had the “born again” experience. From what I have read, after numerous meetings with faith groups and a lot of individual meetings with Christians Donald Trump repented and accepted Jesus Christ as his Saviour. I know of some of these people Trump met with, I know Dr. James Dobson, and regardless of ones views of Dobson’s faith and family views, I KNOW he would not fabricate any sort of story about Trump becoming a true Christian if wasn’t true.

    The left, and Republicans opposed to Trump believe the entire “Donald is now born again” is merely a scam to get Evangelicals to vote for him. And it is no wonder the story gains traction. Those spreading it are well practiced in telling an audience what they want to hear. Hillary Clinton said exactly that comparing her “public positions” with those speeches given to Wall Street bankers. It is how they operate and they assume everyone else does as well.

    Those who have stated Donald is now a baby Christian are not lying to us. We have no idea what is in his heart, but Trump and God know. Dobson and others are simply telling us what they believe to be the truth.

    I sincerely hope the account is true. And we will find out. Trump is not going to learn the Christian vocabulary overnight and he isn’t going to become a theologian anytime soon. Trump is going to make mistakes along the way, he is going to make decisions that some Christians do not agree with. And that’s ok. Christians are not confined to any party or political base camp. Jesus wasn’t a Republican.

    But we will see fairly soon because being genuinely “born again” will begin showing some evidence along the way. He might sprout something called compassion. And there might be a noticeable difference in how he shows his love for money. Ya know, there may be some subtle changes that tell us something has changed. But He doesn’t have to be a Christian to be used by Almighty God.

    The Bible is full of stories about people who weren’t Christian or Jew that He used to fulfill His purposes. Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon, Cyrus of Persia and even Pontus Pilate of Rome come to mind. God used a very unreligious Jew named Samson. The name of God is not mentioned once in the Book of Esther.

    Donald Trump reportedly now believes he has been selected by God to be President of The United States. And he reportedly believes God is going to give him the strength, endurance and wisdom to perform his work. I also read IS is not afraid of personal harm until either God is finished with him, or if he decides he no longer needs God, at which time he will lose that Divine protection.

    He is going to have his critics, opponents and detractors. Since God has given humans free will and free choice this comes down to Trump. Evidently enough Christians prayed enough for God to stay His hand of judgement. And if Trump faithfully follows God’s direction then we may see America Great Again.

    If, on the flip side, Trump and Faith were simply election tools as Hillary supporters claim, we will also see that soon enough.

  • I did not make this comment. Someone has hacked me or something. This makes two comment that I did not make

  • Don’t agree with gay marriage don’t get one. No one is trying to force your church to perform or condone these unions. Freedom to practice your religion doesn’t mean only your religion or forcing your beliefs on others. How are we supposed to share the Gospel with the lost when you treat them like this. Brothers and sisters that share your belief are doing the work of the evil one by keeping the lost from hearing the Word.

  • The US is great because it has the greatest resources in all of the world. Has nothing to do with God. When the resources dry up we’ll find out how much God agrees. The US became so progressive because immigrants from all over the world were invited to help spark and then maintain the industrial revolution.

    If you are in the US were you born here? Are you blessed by God to be here and doing relatively well as opposed to a Christian who is not and is burned alive in a cage in Syria?

    Biblical principles?! Raping, murdering, and looting the indigenous people is based on Biblical principles? How about slavery, war, Japanese internment camps, etc? Whoa. You are rather ignorant of American history or are blinded by your beliefs.

    We are blessed to be born in the US and also be in at least a fairly decent situation. This as opposed to be born in the many countries where the vast majority of its citizens are barely on the verge of survival. This is also the case for many in the US.

    I can assume you are in the upper echelon of human inhabitants on this Earth judging from your “blessed” comment. The US is not anymore a God-blessed land than Iran.

  • Scripture tells us what the root of all evil is. Mr. Trump is not what has surprised me. It has been the professed cultural Christians of the United States of America that have bore witness to the Universe the ground that their souls have been planted in.

    The focus of this past year has been on material growth, the economy and how someone might help millions have more. No one asks if Mr. Trump will make America more noble, whether this president will make America have more of the fruits of the Spirit – peace, kindness, patience, gentleness. When was the last time you heard Evangelicals talk about the spiritual fruit of gentleness? Could it be because this generation is blind and spiritually naked?

    No, we are attracted to the idea that he will “make America great.” Revelation talks about Babylon the Great. Being great is not necessarily being good. God help us.

  • Whats interesting is you cant read the Bible and truly understand the truth it contains using only your own mind. This is why it says to not lean on your own understanding. You absolutely CAN NOT understand or see the truth except it be revealed to you by the Spirit of God Himself. You can read the Bible and see hate and a deplorable God and a vengeful spirit or you can do lile a lot of modern “christianity” and read your Bible and create elaborate religious wevs that support what you WANT to believe. Flesh and blood CANNOT reveal the truth to you, CANNOT give you wisdom or understanding into who God is. Only the Spirit of God can reveal this and the passionate responses of true Christians in this thread, when using the Bible for support, should be prefaced with an understanding that they have the advantage of reading the Bible with the help of the Spirit…through the eyes of Christ. It is an incredible grace that allows them this privelage, and you absolutely must understand that the words come to live and become spiritual food and water that nourishes the soul and opens the understanding of who God is and the mystery of His ways. You will never be able to rationalize or understand God otherwise. You will think He is a fool.

    The gospel of Christ is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to those who are veing saved, it is LIFE.

  • Yes .. because atheistic/ agnostic view points such as your’s should only count. And no others… ( hows that TRUMP VICTORY tasting right about now? BWHAHAHAHAHA!

  • NEUTRALITY to religion in govt is not persecution. When mom warns the family before sitting down to dinner that uncle bert hates talking about politics while eating, she is saying just don’t talk about it (she is NOT demeaning any politicians, she is just saying don’t talk about it because everyone won’t agree with his positions). That’s what our govt says about religion, don’t talk about it from govt positions, don’t decorate govt properties so they look like christian properties, and don’t make any laws concerning religion.

    NOT talking about religion is not demeaning christianity, it’s just saying we all are not one religion and we all don’t agree so don’t bring it up. NOT talking about christianity is not atheist or agnostic, it’s just not talking about it.

  • I still haven’t found much in the bible that can be confirmed outside the bible. no evidence for the exodus, abraham, him destroying canaan, moses, the flood, and I could go on. The bible was written by men as a handbook for judaism and christianity, a sales brochure, no more than that.

  • what you are sensing, feeling, is not god. It’s something our brains do organically, the ‘oceanic feeling”. Neuroscience studies show religion affects the same part of the brain as cocaine and sex, makes you happy.

    your need to convert everyone to your way of thinking has been called ‘spiritual rape’. up rooting the way a person sees the world is traumatic and life threatening. Just stop!

  • god kills 158 times in the bible. whole cities and cultures, everyone on earth.
    BTW there is no proof of any of that outside the bible.

  • the founder kept copious notes including what sources they used to write our constitution. the bible is not there. they wrote if from the magna carta, british civil law, and constitutions from the states. 11 of 13 states accepted separation of church state voluntarily in their constitutions long before our constitution was written. the last two by 1833.

  • Also we have as I noted before the Federalist Papers which were written to explain the purpose and reasoning behind the Constitution and Bill of Rights to a general audience.

    Also we have the charters of Rhode Island and Pennsylvania which codified principles of the 1st Amendment religious clauses (Free exercise of religion, separation of church and state) a century before independence.

    What is interesting is when conservatives/dominionists rail about “activist judges” and judicial review, “judge made law” when the principles were deeply ingrained into the Common Law system we inherited from the British. A system which was over 500 years old before the US existed. When people talk of “original intent” they are applying standards to our laws which were never adopted. “Civil Code” arguments modeled off of Continental European legal systems.

  • Somebody finally said the truth about that much spouted phrase, “Separation of Church & State”. Thank you!!

  • So MOM is telling them. what can and CANNOT be discussed tho eh? because ONE uncle may be offended?? … not in AMerica pal. So in your sad confused lil box of a world since there are many religions ” they cant be brought up”??? that go for sports teams then too? or tv shows? ya… your rhetoric hold NO WATER in the REAL world….. move along snowflake

  • neutrality is not atheistic, it’s not brought up either. what neutrality means is NO belief is the ONLY one that should count.

    if you want a christian theocracy here just say so. what sect of christianity would you prefer and what if they chose one you didn’t like? if only christianity was back by govt there has to be teeth in it, what would you do with non christians, put them in camps, deport them, torture them, execute them (Spanish inquisition?)?

    The purpose of govt neutrality is to leave all religions to flourish or die as the marketplace dictates, no preferential treatment for anyone. Franklin talked about this and said, ‘the good religions will grow and the rest will fail’. Christianity is failing. Is that why you need preferential treatment and financial support from govt?

    If your beliefs were that great you couldn’t build enough churches, lines out the doors, bible sales through the roof. But churches are closing by the hundreds, going back to the living rooms where they started. Moderate prosperity churches are not failing as fast because they don’t talk about hurting gays or demeaning women like the bible teaches.

    Trump is president but two of his exec orders have been stopped because they prefer one religion over others. He does not have the authority to make christianity more powerful or bigger, he has to follow the founding documents and court decisions like it or not.

  • there is NO NEUTRALITY in atheism … what middle school taught you that? By embrassing it as a belief you are negating TRUE belief itself.. .. sad actually.

  • wrong. neutrality is just politely not bringing religion up in mixed company, not taking a side.

  • oh ok so YOU will decide what can and can not be discussed in mixed company under the guiess of “polite” .. re read what you tried spewing earlier.. changing your stance now I see. A believer in Christ is CALLED to share the good news ..NOT sit and be polite because YOU don’t happen to approve…….. Yout approval is NOT needed.

  • I used a comparison story. it’s what the founders meant, not me, when they said ‘make no law’. I don’t think you understand each of us can have our own beliefs with out interference from govt. And we can’t be sold someone else’s religion when we go for a drivers licence. When you say CALLED you mean by your god and religion calls you, NOT civil law and not even the majority of Americans believe that’s what it says.

    Now you tell me what you want for america, a christian theocracy, no other religions legal to teach or believe, govt financial support for just christian churches, christian only prayer/bible study in public schools? That ends freedom of religion in america.

    Every theocracy has had to decide how to handle ppl who just won’t convert to their religion. Do you kick all non christians out of the country, do you jail them for not paying taxes to the church, do you put people in stocks in the public square for not attending church, do you hang them for not believing in god? That’s how every theocracy has dealt with dissenters including the Puritans in early Massachusetts.

    Grow a pair and tell me just how horrible a country you want towards non christian. Don’t hold anything back.

  • Oh now I understand . I do so apologise .. I didn’t realize YOU FRIGGIN SPEAK “FOR THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS”… and what they believe. embracing all faiths is NOT what any of this means and your “look at my right hand while I TRY and confuse you with the left” isnt holding ANY merit here pal. Its not “MY God” but “THE” GOD

  • there are and have been 10’s of 1000’s of gods believed in as you do yours. You chose just one. I don’t believe in any of them.

  • People seem to fail to understand Donald Trump has the mind of Jesus Christ 1 Corinthians 2:16. His values reflect what all good Evangelicals believe. If you don’t like his budget than you are not a Christian following Christ’s real teaching and should quit attending services or quit being a Christian. At worst his values only help you to meet God faster as long as you know Jesus and love Jesus.

  • I really REJECT your usage of “lean not on your own understanding. ” This explains why no Math, Science, Philosophy or Psychology is being preached off of the pulpits of Evangelical churches. LIfe is becoming comfortable and complete with developing skill sets. Words being clarified bring more grace into a person’s life. The same thing goes for God Alone which means to slice an aspect of something in order to reuse it. Christianity is so distorted and dishonest that it is impossible to be understood and thus needs to be ignored. This, “I need to hate myself because I have a disability”, which isn’t my fault has got to stop. It damages many people’s lives. Scriptures should build you up to see your own shortcomings and work on changing your own insanity rather than be loyal to a community that teaches you you have to hate- yourself to be accepted especially by Jesus Christ himeself. . That is damaging gospel.

  • pearls before swine.. I shall not cast. OH! and ONLY ONE EVER was resurrected before witness’.

  • I cannot read nor judge the man’s heart and soul, maybe others can but I do not make that claim. I can say that I have observed a man who rejects the killing of unborn babies unlike so many so called Christians. I also see a man who speaks of the Judeo-Christian transcendent being we call God whereas our former president never did at least not in this sense of the word God. I see a man who loves his family dearly although his past is less than exemplary along these lines, I really believe that he does not stand alone as the only Christian with a poor track record here… perhaps even you and I?? Also, I see a leader who has attended the funerals of slain military heroes unlike our former president in most or possible all cases. Also, who can judge a man who has vowed to protect all Americans from killers and rapists at all costs the likes of Islamic extremists or indeed those who follow the “book” literally. I also see a man who is striving to give the youth of this nation a chance to succeed in spite of the former president who has mortgaged and second and even third mortgaged the future of our grandchildren and even our great-grandchildren. If these observations are not reflective of a man who cares for people and has given up so much and allowed himself to be subjected to so much ridicule, criticism and persecution in order to bring the USA back into prominence and indeed greatness then perhaps I do not recognize a Christian albeit a baby Christian, adolescent Christian or whatever kind of Christian. However, I believe that I do see a man who is pursing a Christian approach to living and leadership at any rate. I will leave the remainder of judgement to our Creator, I don’t know about you..but I do not claim to have the authority to judge this man’s heart, soul nor his faith or lack thereof.

  • Punishment and Reward:
    That person who commits a crime, like entering your house without permission, for wathever reason, commits a crime; that who rapes a person, commits a crime; he or she who lies, or cheats, or steals, or murders, commits crimes, and they are punishable under the laws of men.
    Why you, cook&, look surprised that God Almighty, the creator of the Universe and everything within, will not punish those who have commited crimes, called also sins?
    Do you think that you can do wathever you want, all the EVIL you want, and escape without receiving the punishment you deserve rightfully?
    You do not understand, that In Jesus Christ, we have the message of Love, of Hope, and of Redemption: Believing in Him, is to change for good, to have the desire to please God Almighty every day of your life.
    Unfortunatelly, you do not believe, and you remain in your sins, and therefore, you condemn yourself and shall receive the punishment sooner, rather than latter, you like it, or not.

  • actually no… in the middle east Christianity is persecuted. Any fathoming of the nightly news will show you that.

  • I can think of two obvious ones, that everyone else here can name. If you can’t, I would blame home schooling. 🙂

  • Morality exists independent of religion, though religion can serve as a collection of moral ideas. Ultimately it is the value of each idea that is most important, and not the potentially destructive constraints of a religious system. Some people think just because they are one religion they shouldnt read other holy books. I believe it is important to educate yourself and obtain as much information as you can, even from opposing belief systems, in order to best understand all sides and integrate the best beliefs.

    The dangers of theocracy are very real. View the oppression of christians critically, and extrapolate it for empathy with others.