General story

Kentucky clerk now fighting gay marriage in Romania

Kentucky's Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis, who was jailed for refusing to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples, makes remarks after receiving the "Cost of Discipleship" award at a Family Research Council conference in Washington on Sept. 25, 2015. Photo by James Lawler Duggan/Reuters

(AP) — A Kentucky clerk who refused to issue marriage license to same-sex couples has taken her crusade to Romania.

In a news release, a Florida-based conservative Christian organization says that Kim Davis is visiting the Central European country this week to support a nationwide effort to explicitly ban gay marriage.

The Liberty Counsel says more than 3 million Romanians have signed a petition to have their constitution define marriage as a union between one man and one woman. The country already does not allow same-sex marriage, but Davis and others want the language to be clearer.

Davis spent five days in jail in 2015 for refusing a judge’s order that she issue the licenses to gay couples shortly after a U.S. Supreme Court decision effectively legalized same-sex marriage nationwide.

About the author

The Associated Press

146 Comments

Click here to post a comment

  • Of course she is. There’s money to be mined in homohatred.
    So, this four times married, adulterous fornicating b****w**** is busy telling Romanians all about how horribly she was treated for being an unrepentant sinner, for refusing to do her job, for being a flaming hypocrite whom jesus has already forgiven, as he always does.
    Yet another good example of the evangelical anti-ex-gay industry, failing to do what they want in this country, and so, exporting the hate to other places.

  • If you as an gay activist were given a clear, no-downside invitation, to travel overseas to give a few speeches and promote the host country’s gay-marriage political goals, would you turn down such a rare invitation?

    I think not. You’re an activist. You’d feel honored to be selected as an international ambassador for what you believe and worked hard for.

    Well guess what? Kim Davis is an activist too. She’s a hard worker just like you. An ambassador.

  • In context, my concern as a conservative Christian who endeavors to adhere strictly to the letter and the spirit of scripture would be whether Ms. Davis’s marriages came before or after she began professing the Christian faith. If before, she is on extremely safe ground; if after, then her sincerity or hypocrisy becomes an open question. However, I am not sanguine about this present international effort, for if she is not lead by the Lord in a genuine calling, but is acting in a spirit of human carnality and self promotion, she does a disservice to the Lord she claims to serve, but He will be her judge, not I.

  • May God Bless Mrs. Kim Davis and grant her many years. Hopefully someday we shall reverse, reject and expunge the ugly travesty of “gay marriage” in America. Never give up.

  • Edward,
    I believe that Mrs Davis, like all of us, has witnessed the viscous militancy of homosexualists and she recognizes the danger they pose to Romania and other nations based on our experience here in America. As believers in God, we must endeavor to fight back and resist more strongly for the sake of our children and future generations. May God Bless.

  • Your belief system is the “ugly travesty”. But thanks to the likes of you and Kim Davis, it will die sooner than later.

  • Here’s the difference.

    She goes to Romania, in order to demonize and attack people, spread bigotry, intolerance, lack of understanding, religious bigotry, fear of others, and the suppression of people who are harming no one, except in the questionable “minds” of religious fanatics.

    I would go to Romania to talk abut understanding others, promote tolerance of other people, ending bigotry, promoting understanding of difference, and so on.

    That you don’t see the difference is just like a black man agreeing that he should sit at the back of the bus, get his lunch at a different lunch counter, or perhaps even have laws in place to make sure that black people are seen as a threat.

  • I’ve witnessed the vicious militancy of Christians my entire life. The militancy is reaching into the narrow minds of many legislatures and re-establishing second class citizen status for non-conformists.
    The current attempts at a Seven Mountains hegemony will be the destruction of liberty, equality, and fraternity in this country. Civil rights will be set back at least 200 years.

  • Ben said;
    “….the difference is just like a black man agreeing that he should sit at the back of the bus…”

    Dear Ben,
    Unlike skin color sodomy is non-genetic, it’s a choice and it is predatory.

  • Under the leadership of President Trump there is now protection for religious freedom and likewise more protection for children and young people. For that we are grateful.

  • Unlike bigotry, being gay is inborn and unchangeable. Unlike religion, no one choose to be gay. Unlike ignorance and stupidity, being gay is inborn and unchangeable.

    Unlike bigotry hiding behind religion, it harms no one. Being a religious bigot, refusing to understand others, preferring the stories you tell yourself to reality, pretending to love while actually hating…

    There’s a choice for you. And it’s predatory.

  • Trump has done nothing for ‘religious’ freedom. He is pandering to the American Taliban and pissing on the Constitution.

  • Trump (or Sessions) newest efforts for religious freedom has been to remove employment protection for transgender people. So in a democracy, which does not require adherence to any particular belief system, you are okay with allowing people to lose their jobs if their behavior doesn’t conform with your religious convictions. Remember why the Constitution reads as it does — because next time the religion in power might not approve of you.

  • If you’re teaching elementary school kids and you go transgender on them, either you need to find another job or the parents need to find another school. No middle ground there.

    That’s not bigotry or hatred, by the way. I know the trans’ situation is a tough one. But it’s time to start looking out for the kids’ mental and moral health. It’s time to say no to some stuff. Love people, but don’t love transgenderism.

    On another issue, Obama already showed what happens when the government “might not approve” of Christians. He was/is a mess. But Christians don’t need to be scared about that scenario anymore; we know it’s coming back again.

  • Wow! If she is sincere, What kind of hatred for LGBT people would move someone to travel that far to fight to deny them marriage? She definitely wouldn’t do that to help pass laws against divorce would she?

  • He has made it clear that he has no plans to tackle same-sex marriage. I don’t think he’d have any success on that issue. It’s definitely not a religious issue as marriage is a secular, state-regulated matter. It’s a civil rights issue.

  • “Being gay is inborn and unchangable.”

    Science says you’re wrong on both counts, Ben. That mythology just don’t work no more. Your white skin and my black skin are “inborn and unchangable”, but that’s as far as it goes.

    You **chose** a gay self-identity because you wanted to, NOT because you had to. That choice was a mistake, a mistake spanning decades. But even right now, you could choose Another self-identity if you wanted to.

    Somebody who ain’t gay is offering you HIS identity, HIS mindset, HIS power. You could choose a new outcome.

  • It is true that on this one issue, Trump is not openly, fanatically crusading all over the place like the shameless gay marriage zombie Obama did.

    BUT a big part of the presidency is simply the “bully pulpit” aspect. Merely saying the right things **out loud**, can energize a group nearly as much as a favorable decision by Congress or the USSC.

    And Trump is certainly saying the right things in this general area, indeed surpassing expectations.

  • “That’s not bigotry or hatred, by the way.” It’s an unfounded fear. No matter how much it scares you, sex and gender are not as binary as you seem to think they are. Deal with that reality and quit making transgendered people’s situation even tougher by treating them like their existence is a threat to the well-being of others.

  • “Let’s remember what these people are like: they have forgiven themselves and their friends for anything and everything. But they have been absolutely disgusted by the ordinary sexuality of ordinary men and women.” -Kurt Vonnegut Jr. in “Welcome to the Monkey House”

  • Yeah, because you’re clearly an expert on the science of homosexuality. There’s a little thing called confirmation bias, you may want to look it up. For the record I believe the origins of homosexuality are a lot more nuanced than either there is a gay gene or there isn’t, but most people don’t like to accept reality for what it is, instead they try to simplify it to something that they can fit in their narrow little worldview.

    In the meantime I’d suggest not trying to enforce your religious beliefs on others via government, because at some point someone will do the same to you, or your kids, or their kids and you’re gonna be responsible for that.

  • Lets not forget that Evangelical Christians helped Russia pass their draconian anti-gay law. Because of their work, gay people in Russian have endured ongoing violence and death. And, even worse, Evangelical Christians have helped nations in Africa pass even more draconian laws that call for the arrest and execution of gay people.

    And you know who has never had one word of complaint or disapproval when groups like the Taliban and governments in the Middle East hurl gay people off the top of buildings and push stone walls over on them? Yeah that would be Evangelical Christians. Nothing but stone-cold silence.

    What Kim Davis is doing is just a continuation of all this. And if Evangelical Christians could get aways with this stuff in America, they’d do it in a heartbeat.

  • Did you choose a male identity because you wanted to or because you had to? And by insisting your deity isn’t gay, are you saying he (I assume) has a gender preference, a sexual preference, or both? If neither, why did you make a point of it?

  • The devotees of the Gay Religion are already doing that to us Christians in many states (check out the Phillips and Stutzmann cases for openers), and it’s likely to continue that way.

    So we Christians actually have nothing to lose by taking a clear stand against the national evil of gay marriage, whether at the individual level, the small business level, the legal & political level, and/or the church and seminary level.

    It’s also okay to let folks know that change is possible, choice is possible. People must stop hiding behind “born that way.”

  • Russia passed laws to protect children which made it illegal to give homosexual propaganda to children. Protecting children from predators is not hatred nor bigotry, it is righteous and we must to do more. We need similar laws in America.

  • Each of us **choose** every day, Anton. We all make free-will choices in words, thoughts, & deeds that move us AWAY FROM certain temptations or else TOWARDS certain temptations.

    Every day we make choices that reinforce the right direction or the wrong direction in our sexuality and/or other important areas of life.

    Can’t hide behind “born that way.” You are a free-will moral agent. A person’s DNA does NOT remove a person’s free-will and their ability to say yes or no to temptations.

  • One does not choose to be gay. Even if being gay was a choice it would be one people have a right to make. Bigotry and hatred are a choice. Those who do not wish I to marry someone of their own gender need not do so. Others can make their own choices.

  • Who makes the decision about what is the right or the wrong direction to go with respect to an individual’s sexuality? And what about the self-mutilating behaviors associated with certain genetic disorders, do you believe that affected individuals are simply exercising free will? And what about the sexuality of your “not gay” deity?

  • Who makes the decision? The Inventor of humans and human sexuality, of course. The Manufacturer of marriage, He gets to call it.

    HE gave us His specific operating instructions, and if we don’t follow them, we succeed only in jamming up our own machinery and crossing our own wires.

    Your own TV, newspaper, and Internet confirms this stark reality every week.

  • And by the way, we only know for sure that the Lesch-Nyman genetic disorder causes too much uric acid in the body.

    We know that a variety of neurological troubles, including lip-biting or finger-biting (self-mutilation) appear around age 2 or 3 as a result of this overproduction of uric acid.

    But like Wiki says, the etiology (the specific cause) of the neurological problems are unknown. It’s got something to do with the excess uric acid, but we don’t really know **how** it’s causing stuff.

    Anyway, the genetic disorder itself is only causing uric acid overproduction. The genetic stuff itself is NOT magically removing a person’s free-will moral agency. And I don’t think you want to associate homosexual behavior and gay marriage with THIS sort of genetic example anyway.

    So this is an absolutely **wrong** example to try to prove that gays are “born that way.”

  • Believe it or not, Floyd, I understand the importance of faith. But this is where you lose me. What makes you think that your interpretation of your ‘not gay’ deity is the right one? Do you have any humility at all?

  • I’m just following the Bible, Anton. It’s very clear in the Bible that neither God nor Jesus are gay. If you disagree, just show me where the Bible says otherwise.

    (And neither God nor Jesus gives ANY kind of free pass or let-it-slide, to homosexual behavior and gay marriage. No “born gay” excuses either. They just ain’t having it.)

  • You brought up this specific genetic disorder. I have merely responded to what you brought up. Feel free to concede the issue if you’d like.

  • I hope you have gay children or relatives. Then you may have to put your old fashion book aside. Im straight but I realise there have always been and always will be gay people. Some communities accept this others don’t. I honestly can’t seethe harm in letting people be who they are. Your reason not to is the same one that says not to eat shelfish…..ever eaten shellfish?

  • The genetic code is complex and although there is no direct gay Gene discovered it is still very likely that there is a genetic basis to homosexuality. It’s likely carried by the woman’s genome because the primates we evolved from would have had mating system similar to existing primates. In this system where one dominant male mates with many females there would be a benefit in fitness to the females which get along well with other females. This illlustrates how homosexuality provided a clear evolutionary benefit in the past for our ancestors. It doesn’t matter if you accept this but you cannot claim that science has refuted the genetic basis of homosexuality because this is not the case.

  • Also, if you really feel this strongly about it, it’s probably because you are gay, but that’s ok bud.

  • That you would wish children such a fate is wicked. .I hope he does not have gay children, as they will certainly be ostracized and possibly driven to suicide. What a horrible thing to wish upon someone innocent (meaning the children).

  • I’m sure she meant viscous: having a thick, sticky consistency between solid and liquid; having a high viscosity. The consistency of snot. Or vomit.

  • I’m sure she meant viscous: having a thick, sticky consistency between solid and liquid; having a high viscosity. The consistency of snot. Or maybe vomit.

  • Traci,
    Always remember that homosexualists are passionate about pushing homosexuality on other people’s children.

  • “That’s not bigotry or hatred, by the way. I know the trans’ situation is a tough one. But it’s time to start looking out for the kids’ mental and moral health.”

    “The kids, the kids, the kids” Meanwhile, y’all are the same motherfers putting Mt. Dew in sippy cups and beating a six year old for standing in front of the TV while your favorite show is on. You all are so full of –it. Stop being cowards and say what you mean. You’re freaked out. The thought of a man wanting to be a woman disgusts you. Because like most things that disgust you, you lack the capacity to understand it. You know: “homos”…algebra… –it like that.

  • The USA has protection for religious freedom enshrined in the constitution. Please let us know when your religious freedom has been infringed upon. I suspect never.

    We have had protection for children and young people for many decades. Trump is not doing anything to help expand that.

    Neither of these issues have anything to do with gay marriage.

  • Good people will use their time on earth to try to make other people’s lives better. Bad people, e.g., Ms. Davis, will spend their time trying to make the lives of people different from themselves worse. What a simple test to see who is living a moral life. Sorry Kim…you’re in the wrong category.

  • Not every gay person wants to be gay anymore. Some honestly want out, Stu. What do you offer them?

    P.S. I love butterfly shrimp and pork chops. Yum!

  • Gay slavery doesn’t work, Traci. It’s a trap and a curse all by itself, at ALL times. Especially on the youth.

    I understand that ostracism and suicide don’t work either. Misery kills people, young & old.

    But I don’t just call attention to the above. I point out that there really IS a way out, an exit ramp. Real freedom, real healing, real restoration, whatever the issue.

    1 Cor. 6:-9-11. 1 Cor 10:13.
    No apologies, No compromises.

  • “If I was given a dollar for every time someone said that….” Oh well.

    But you’re halfway right. I’m not really passive or neutral about this issue. I talk to people; their faces stay in my heart. Some want — or once wanted — to get out of the gay life. A new Emancipation Proclamation. Christ offers it.

    There are activists on **both** sides of this issue — not just the gay or pro-gay side.

  • Humans evolved from primates? Seriously?

    Modern Science seems to be failing that particular evolutionary claim, just as badly as it failed the “Born Gay” sales-pitch.

  • Then you are just as big a “sinner” as any LGBT+ individual. Touched a football? Worked on a Sunday? Yup, your god says you must die. So your judgement of others is pointless.

  • They do like to bleat, “At least we’re not as bad as the Muslims.”
    That has to count for something.

  • When your bigoted, sex-obsessed version of god comes down personally and hands me personally a message saying that my civil marriage is wrong, there might be a point. All you have is your preferred reading of something someone said he said 2000 years ago.

  • The bible also condemns your little floozie, the subject of your diatribe. And yet she has announced that Jesus has forgiven her. amazing how it works, isn’t it?

  • there is no heterosexual gene.
    There are epigenetic traits.
    There are inborn traits like handedness that are also not changeable.

  • And fundelibangelists are intent on pushing both their poisonous brand of religion and their hatred of gay people on other people’s children.

  • The only people who think homosexuality is a choice are the deeply closeted. Given your reaction, that appears to be a distinct possibility. Ted Haggard Syndrome in the worst way.

  • So you are a Putin Trollbot. Good that you finally came out and admitted it.

    Better yet, instead of trying to drag down America to a craphole like Russia, why don’t you just go there yourself. I am sure we can get a collection or gofundme going for the trip.

  • You make me laugh Navy…”second class citizens”….all Christians are trying to do is make people engaging in the sin of homosexuality a Christian like themselves. There is no “second class”, as much as you would like to put Christians there.

  • From God with love:

    1 Corinthians 7 – Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife.” But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband.”

  • Wrong. What those in support of gay marriage don’t understand is that THEY are the ones overturning millennia of human history, expecting everyone to agree. No one hates or demonizes gays that I know. I have gay friends, but that does not mean I have to support a same-sex marriage. It can NEVER be a marriage. The parts do not fit, and you cannot have natural sex the way humans were made. It is NOT the same as interracial, not at all, because they can join in a natural union. You say we “hate”. Do you hate? Do you hate those who do not believe (as has not been ever believed until recently) that same-sex “marriage” is NOT a marriage? Don’t twist things around. Same-sex couples today adopt or produce one-parent children(naturally), and it is NOT good for children to have same-sex parents. Period. They need both sexes.

  • Same-sex couples can NEVER EVER produce a child jointly, containing both parent’s DNA. It is just not the way. Don’t involve children.

  • No one is made “gay”. It’s a choice. And it is harmful to the individuals, higher disease, shorter lives, high STD’s, all of which can be proven. It is NOT healthy, especially to involve children.

  • ” Good people will use their time on earth to try to make other people’s lives better. ”

    How true that is.

  • floydlee – why are you wasting your vast depth of scientific and medical knowledge responding to articles written in a religious news-site ?
    You obviously should be correcting the thousands of scientific/medical papers submitted annually to various scientific/medical journals, for peer review.

  • Ben advocates treating gay people like human beings. She advocates imprisoning and murdering people for being gay. If you can’t tell the difference, you are too far gone for reasonable discussion.

  • SFW, neither can the elderly or the infertile. Procreation is not the sole purpose of a couple. Fundie bigots demean and reduce marriage far more than gay couples seeking it with such talk.

    You don’t want people raising children, go eff yourself. Everyone has a right to form families. It’s none of your business.

  • So you support an age old tradition, but can’t tell us why it needs to remain or must have force of law. You apply the same arguments as those who opposed miscegenation. But since you are not racist for the moment you claim there is some difference.

    As for children, not one of you anti gay buffoons has been able to show gay couples are worse parents. We have a generation of young adults who have already been raised by them. The proof would be there if you were an honest person. But it isn’t.

    If anything breeding children to the hate, ignorance and dishonesty accompanying your beliefs are shown to he far more harmful than anything you claim. How many hate crimes / murders are committed by people raised on such toxic sludge as religious based bigotry? Too many.

  • I suspect wingnut welfare. She saw an opportunity for extending her 15 minutes of fame and make money as a hate monger. She’s a vile opportunist with significant political backing by people with genocidal intent.

  • ” Good people will use their time on earth to try to make other people’s lives better. ”

    How does sodomy make other people’s lives better?

  • She’s an unrepentant adulteress. Her own ‘marriage’ (which Christ explicitly calls adultery) is a travesty itself, and one that should be every bit as illegal and subject to prosecution as that which she rails against with the all hypocrisy of the scribes and Pharisees.

  • Millennia of human history haven’t been over turned by allowing gay people to marry.

    Oh, wait!!! IT has been! You now have one less group that you can attack, demean, dehumanize, demonize, disparage, vilify, denigrate, trivialize, undervalue, underrate, degrade, slight, abuse, scor, slander, deride, revile, ridicule, dismiss, discredit, defame, and derogate.

    And that, dear lady. Is what really upsets so many of you religious bigots.

  • Honey, I’m 67. I still run six minutes miles. I’ve committed as much sodomy in my life as you imagine I have. And NONE of it has had the slightest effect on my life, except to give me a good one, surrounded by good people.

    The real question, why as anti gay religious bigots so desperate to dehumanize and degrade us?

  • Yet Christians constantly fail to hold their own accountable for their sins. This is what amuses me, the overtly pious making cold and heavy handed efforts to interfere with the lives of others who will not succumb to their deception.

    “…all Christians are trying to do is make people engaging in the sin of homosexuality a Christian like themselves.” by legislating into existence Christian hegemony and criminalizing nonconformity.

  • Christians show you love, just as they have been shown – to protect one from Hell. I’m sorry you are unable to understand that.

  • Considering that the Christian God is said to have impregnated a human woman, it doesn’t seem too far off to assert he has a gender or sexual preference.

  • But Christian love has an ugly and lethal history. A history of failing to holder followers accountable. A history of dangerous misogyny and duplicity.
    If your concept of fear, retribution, and hell do not appeal to your target, leave them alone. And don’t consign them to the outer edges of your ring because they refuse to bend to your will.

  • What do you think will happen to a child if their teacher “goes transgender on them”? Automatic psychosis? They’ll all turn gay? How does one “go transgender on them” anyway?

  • No, it is not ugly or lethal to want to see someone in a relationship with Jesus with the reward of an eternity in Heaven.

  • So when they call it the pigskin, they are actually lying about that sacred American institution?

    I’m depressed now.

  • The original “pigskins” were actually pig bladders used to give the football its shape. But once rubber became available in the 19th century, they didn’t do that anymore. It’s no more lying than saying I’m “typing” my reply to you.

  • but jesus forgave her. We know because she said so…
    and because she is that sort of Good Christian (TM)

  • She’s corrected her phrase now, but NavyLady originally said, “the viscous militancy of Christians.”

    We were just trying to nail down which “v-word” she was actually using. I’m sure it was something like “virtuous militancy of Christians.”

  • Oh, but you already know. We’re talking about Gender Identity Disorder here.
    We’re talking about teachers who try to sell their own GID as “normal” to students — without even being honest enough to say that what they’re experiencing IS a disorder, and a very serious one at that.

    Normalizing GID and (by word and example) teaching gender confusion. One-sided indoctrination of kids that this disorder/deception is A-Okay. Eroding and corroding the parents’ vital efforts to develop a clear understanding of accurate and appropriate gender dynamics in their own kids’ lives. That’s a mess, folks.

    https://patch.com/illinois/lakeview/transgender-teacher-goes-public-in-chicago
    http://www.frc.org/transgender

  • Pardon my frankness, but only the penetrater has an orgasm, how does it help the poor guy on the receiving end?

  • Once again, anal sex is not limited to gay men. You are only proving more so your lack of knowledge about human sexuality. RNS is a family publication, so I can only suggest that you look up “prostate” on Wikipedia and go to section 2.2.1 — but not from your work computer.

  • I cant believe you just said that. Science is not something you learn from the bible and in church. It’s real people studying physical evidence such as fossils and coming to rational conclusions. Unbelievable!

  • Sodomy is anal and oral and is not limited to same-sex sex but is enjoyed by billions of heterosexuals. You should enjoy it some time.

  • What inventor of mankind? Not your god. According to your Bible Adam and Eve are 6,000 years old. Modern man is tens of thousands of years older so someone beat him to it and started from scratch billions of years ago. Well before the time of Genesis, modern man had meaningful burials and a likely a simple religion according to some of the cave art.

  • “How does sodomy make other people’s lives better?”

    If you have to ask, you are doing it all wrong.

  • And yet you constantly go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on…

    About sodomy.

  • Teaching gender confusion.

    Yet another spurious charge by the terminally frightened. Your ilk says the same thing about being gay. No I’m quite certain what gender I am.

    And that is what scares the living benesus out of you.

  • Humans didn’t just evolve from primate; humans ARE primates, emerging from Tanzania (give or take) at some point prior to 200kya (again, give or take) according to both fossil and mitochondrial evidence. Just because you don’t understand the science doesn’t invalidate it.

    Not only are there amply fossils of prior species who could walk upright and use tools, there’s ample genetic evidence such as the sharing of mutations, and not just functional genes but random errors, with other primates. Here’s a lineage based on similarity of olfactory mutations http://www.pnas.org/content/100/6/3324.full and we share fairly specific frame shift errors in our non-functional GULO gene as well ( some discussion http://biologos.org/blogs/dennis-venema-letters-to-the-duchess/a-tale-of-three-creationists-part-3 ). Unlike you, I can do more than just sit here and say “well nuh uh, science totally doesn’t say that, because, like, I say so from my armchair”. I can actually present evidence.

    Even your own sub-optimal configuration shows much the same thing. You carry a spine that’s more or less configured for quadruped walking with only the most haphazard of modifications, an eye with a backwards retina (and despite numerous attempts to explain this in creationist circles as “necessary”, cephalopods required no such feature; why the dual eye designs, and why is theirs so much more parsimoniously arranged?), not to mention an inferior eye to several creatures such as birds of prey despite being “god’s favored” species.

    So why the genetic and anatomical reuse, replete with baggage that does nothign but harm us (some more discussion there http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2013/02/human-evolution-gain-came-pain )? Why the continuation of genetic errors?

    Your case against homosexual behavior is even flimsier, though in fairness some blame need be assigned to your opponents. Aside from the fact that you just haven’t addressed many of the points made on how people end up displaying homosexual behavior, you haven’t been able to find a reason why it’s relevant.

    It doesn’t matter if homosexuality is an inherent trait or chosen, because you haven’t been able to present a single, solitary reason why there’s anything wrong with homosexual behavior. Thus far the only reason that seems to be coming from you is “because I’m arbitrarily a bigot”.

  • It’s also none of your business if engaged in by two consenting adults. Typical reactionary, wants a “smaller government” but when it comes to their sexual behavior/orientation the government is empowered to step in. Hypocrisy at its highest.

  • Wrong. I did not chose to be heterosexual no more than some friends chose to be homosexual. Until & unless the bigots understand this they will continue to target the LGBT community with their hatred born from ignorance.

  • Kind of a weird statement to make. Where does it say God and Jesus are heterosexual?

    What I really don’t get is why gays get such attention from the evangelical community when there are 19 million unmarried couples who live together or when there are 3 times the number of sexual assaults compared to gay marriages annually?

  • because it is always more fruitful, so to speak, to pounce on the sin you have no intention of committing–
    or every intention of committing, but don’t want to be found out.

  • No, what you’re trying to do is alter the laws so that people have no choice but to be like you. In other words “it’s not second class citizenship; everyone gets the freedom to cease their own self-determination and believe and act as I do!” Gee, Sandi, your generosity would bring a god to tears.

    And why, exactly, should anyone but Christians be beholden to the demands Christians have attributed to their particular variation of the Flying Spaghetti Monster?

  • Well, as God created all of us, He makes the call on what He expects of us. You don’t like the idea that we are helping them is more your problem than mine.

  • I didn’t ask what your unsupported beliefs about creation were; I asked why others should be legally beholden to them. In essence, what you’re saying, is that you don’t hold to the idea of basic religious freedom, because your beliefs are so important, that they supercede self-determination.

    And on what grounds do these beliefs stand that you would assign them such significance as to gleefully declare yourself an enemy of freedom? Can you present any evidence that your particular deity is any more likely to exist than the Invisible Pink Unicorn or Russel’s Teapot? Does your conclusion even follow from those unsupported premises? For instance, why does creation of a sentient being give ownership of that being? Even if you could demonstrate the existence of your God, something I assign next to zero probability of you doing here, what makes him automatically correct in any given assertion?

  • Have you even considered any of this before deciding to condemn vast groups of people? It’s not as though it’s anything that hasn’t been brought up a countless times before in the last several thousand years.

  • And every time it is repeated, it will protect someone else from engaging in the sin – giving them the opportunity to be a child of God. God is faithful to forgive us of our sin, should we repent, turn to Him, and follow Him.

  • No unsupported, so you’re in error there. There are many, many historical books that attest to what I said.
    Freedom comes from Christ, my friend. I’m sorry you are unable to understand that.

  • If you can present evidence that supports you, then you’re right; your position would be supported. So? What evidence do you have to present?

    What about the challenges I put forward to Biblical logic, or on the moral character of God? Are you unable to answer those questions? If not, why does your position even merit being considered, let alone being any kind of basis for law?

    Also, if your belief is that Christ desires restriction of human action, then per the definition of freedom that is not freedom. It would, in fact, be the opposite of freedom.

  • You can keep repeating these assertions over an over, but if you can’t answer the most basic questions posed to you about them, then they merit no consideration, and you should, yourself, reconsider your reasoning.

  • Oh, good, then you can address the basic problems I outlined above.

    It’s telling of how damaging those criticisms were that they were removed as “spam”, but I trust you saw them all the same. So? With what logic do you respond to the problems of an omniscient God who creates flawed humans, knowing the specific result beforehand, and then blames the humans for that result? Who inflicts infinite punishments for finite crimes, including acts that you can’t even justify as bad/wrong/criminal in any way? Who’s supposed to be “good”, yet created a horrific universe and, according to Biblical canon, doles out death, destruction and suffering on a whim? How do you answer the charge that God’s omniscience means he already knows, based on the universe and people he’s creating, who he’s causing to lead a life that includes the very “sins” you’re against here, and then blaming the people? Can sin even exist in a predestined world? How? Wouldn’t that just be God committing the sins by proxy?

    If you can’t answer these questions, then aren’t you quite possibly just following this set of beliefs blindly, with no real thought put into its validity, whatsoever? Is that really a sound way to formulate a worldview, particularly when it compels you to control and condemn other people?

  • You might answer what satisfies you, but you still haven’t been able to support your position. It seems I wasn’t in error to call you unsupported before. Unsupportable might even be reasonable.

  • No. I comprehend it clearly, and you know I comprehend it clearly. There’s nothing you’ve written that I haven’t responded to thoroughly, so that’s a lie. If you have to hold up your beliefs with lies, are those beliefs really robust?

    More to the point, I posed questions and challenges to what you wrote, and you’re unable to answer those questions and challenges or present anything at all on which to support your beliefs. Wouldn’t a rational person be concerned about that?

    If your belief doesn’t have anything to stand on, not a single thing that you can put forward, and if it can’t answer the most basic scrutiny, but you accept it anyways and don’t even consider that, isn’t that just blind, irrational belief? Are you a blind, irrational person? If not, then consider what I put forward. Actually address it. If you can’t, maybe take ten seconds to consider the possibility that maybe, just maybe, you’re wrong. Is all that really so much to ask?

  • I think the thrust of the comment is a simple one, as a couple of examples will show —

    1. Don’t seek your owngood, but the good of other….1 Corinthians 10:24

    2. ABOVE ALL, LOVE EACH OTHER DEEPLY, because love covers over a multitude of sins..….1 Peter 4:8

    Do we need to know the details of other peoples lives in order to pre-qualify them before those scripture verses can be applied?

ADVERTISEMENTs