Columns Jeffrey Salkin: Martini Judaism Opinion

There are many ways to love Israel

Women carry an Israeli flag while participating in the International March of the Living in 2017. Participants march between Auschwitz to Birkenau, the largest concentration camp complex built during World War II. Photo courtesy of Finn Partners

(RNS) — I first fell in love with Jewish books at Camp Eisner, the Reform Jewish camp in Great Barrington, Mass. Almost 50 summers ago, as a young teenager, I was assigned the duty of cleaning out the camp library. I did a terrible job. Cleaning has never been my strong suit.

Reading is.

On the dusty floor of that library, I discovered a book that would change my life — The Zionist Idea: A Historical Analysis and Reader — edited by the great American rabbi and Jewish historian, Arthur Hertzberg, who collated the great statements of Zionism into a thick volume. It became a collection of answers to a question that we did not even know existed: Why should there be an Israel?

Now, it is decades later, and my friend and teacher, Gil Troy, has re-written Hertzberg’s book. It is no longer The Zionist Idea. It is The Zionist Ideas: Visions for the Jewish Homeland — Then, Now, Tomorrow. Ideas, not idea. Gil Troy has embraced a “big tent” Zionism.

There is not one way of viewing Zionism, or the state of Israel, or the people of Israel. One size does not fit all. Rather, there are many such ideas. There are many such doorways into an encounter with what I believe to be the most remarkable Jewish achievement of the past five hundred years — the rebirth of the state.

The Zionist ideas fall into several families of ideas — with each one existing to answer the question: Why should there be an Israel?

  • Political Zionism. Primarily, to save the lives of Jews who are in danger of persecution.
  • Labor Zionism. To reclaim the land of Israel by working the land and soil of Israel.
  • Revisionist Judaism. To save as many Jews as is humanly possible, and to make sure that the Jews possess as much of the land of Israel as possible.
  • Religious Zionism. To enable Jews to fulfill the mitzvot (in Hebrew, “commandments.”)
  • Cultural Zionism. To be the cultural engine of the Jewish people — to create a national culture that will fill the Jewish heart and spirit with pride.

All of which merits the support of a final kind of Zionism – Diaspora Zionism. Why should there be an Israel? To help Jews, especially in the United States, to underscore the parallels and links between Israeli democracy and the democracy that they enjoy in their own lands of residence.

The Zionist Idea, Arthur Hertzberg’s earlier volume, had many great writers within its covers. But, it was published in 1959, and there could be no contributions written after that year. Troy has done an amazing job of searching out newer, and younger writers. And there is something else that is crucial in The Zionist Ideas.

When Arthur Hertzberg wrote The Zionist Idea, he failed to include any female Zionist voices — even when there could have been, and even when there should have been.

Gil Troy has redeemed the voices of women who write in the cause of Zion. Among them:

  • The poet Rachel Bluwstein
  • The founder of Hadassah, Henrietta Szold
  • The prime minister, Golda Meir
  • The left wing activist, Shulamit Aloni
  • The right wing activist, Geulah Cohen
  • The author of Yerushalayim Shel Zahav, Naomi Shemer
  • The young, firebrand social activist Knesset member, Stav Shaffir

And so, my own Zionist ideas. If you were to ask me: Why should there be an Israel? I would find the question outrageous.

Why? Israel is…

  • The only country whose very existence is under constant questioning.
  • The only country whose flaws have become the very pretext of its imagined dismantling.
  • The only country created by the U.N. and which is its most constant and unrelenting target.
  • The only country whose legitimate attempts to defend its borders are met with scorn and cynicism.

And yet, I believe in Israel. Because, Israel also is…

  • … at the heart of the original covenant that God made with Abraham — before Israel was a people, it was a destination.

In the words of the Canadian statesman Irwin Kotler: “Israel is the aboriginal homeland of the Jewish people across space and time. It is the homeland for the Jewish people, wherever and whenever it may be; and its birth certificate originates in its inception as a First Nation.”

  • …in the words of Abba Eban, “the only state which has the same territory, speaks the same language, and upholds the same faith as it did three thousand years ago.”
  • …the resurrection of the Jewish people out of the ashes of history.
  • …the stubborn refusal of the Jewish people to remain passive.
  • …the bulwark of the West.

In the words of Ruth Wisse:

For the first time, the ability of Jews to withstand their assailants affects the security of other nations as much as their own. Jews always believed that they were meant to help repair the world, but now that belief has turned into plain political fact, albeit in the form they least expected and least desired.

Israel represents…

  • …the revival of a language, the Hebrew language – the first and only time in history in which a people has brought its language back from the dead.
  • …the ability of the Jew to create a national culture of literature, art, music, theater, and dance.
  • …the vision of the ingathering of the exiles, with distinct cultures, foods, tastes and temperaments.
  • …the promise that no Jew will be homeless or irredeemably vulnerable.

In the words of the French philosopher Bernard Henri-Levy: “If dark times, truly dark times, were to return, there would be, for imperiled and defenseless Jews, not a “solution,” but a way out, which they so tragically lacked before.”

  • …a laboratory of Jewish values. It is not always successful in promoting and living those values, but its failures do not depress me. They invigorate me. They are as noble to me as its successes.
  • …the reminder that we do not live for ourselves alone.

In the words of Gil Troy: “Pride in one’s heritage can provide essential, time-tested anchors in our me-me-me, my-my-my, more-more-more, now-now-now world.”

As Israel marks her 70th birthday this week, I rejoice with her, and with those who love her.

And, I rejoice that God is not done with her, or us, or the world — yet.

 

About the author

Jeffrey Salkin

Rabbi Jeffrey K. Salkin is the spiritual leader of Temple Solel in Hollywood, Fla., and the author of numerous books on Jewish spirituality and ethics, published by Jewish Lights Publishing and Jewish Publication Society.

63 Comments

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  • to know them is to love them/hate.the jews are the best genociders over time but specificaly roosia1917 torecently,germany duyring and mostly after the war 10 million germans killed or diedeastern europeand back to persia and the ears.jews scream about what they are doing to others projection a moronic defense mechanism they haver hi jacked all wester countries formerly white and will not rest till they have their jew world order.

  • The only challenge I would pose to the above commentary is this: Is Judaism as practiced today the same Judaism as practiced, in its essentials, as that practiced by Abraham and the forefathers of Israel? I have my doubts, but they are well meaning doubts.

  • This is all bullshit. Because the Jewish people once lived in the Levant means that they are entitled to return and forcefully remove the folks who lived there in modern times is bullshit. Especially because they believe that their tribal deity gave them the land! How many other tribes and clans of the ancient world also had national myths about their tribal deity giving them their land? Should they all get to return and murder and destroy the lives of the folks who live there today? Or are the Jews the special ones, only they are allowed such special treatment. If misguided Christians in the West hadn’t funded and backed the Jews returning to the Middle East out of guilt, Israel wouldn’t exist. And if the West didn’t continue to prop Israel up today, the Arabs would have overrun Israel and returned the land to its modern day owners.

    What day are we going to set aside to commemorate the Palestinian Holocaust, perpetrated on the Palestinian Arabs by the very people, the jews, who had previously suffered a similar fate. The genocide and the enslavement of the Palestinian people will be a blood stain forever on the hands of the Israeli people!

  • What you call “myths” may or may not be, but that’s really a distraction. It’s a distraction from your problem with Jews. It’s an age-old problem so, frankly, Jews are used to it and your skewed vision of Jews, wonderfully, can no longer have any consequence. The fact is that Jews are not like “other tribes” of the ancient world. NOTHING like them. The Hittites have faded…the Jebusites have faded away, too, Even Empires like the Romans and Byzantium have gone to dust. But the Jews haven’t faded away. Despite despots, pogroms and genocides, the Jews have continued to exist even if people like you would have that otherwise and seem to have hoped that the pogroms and genocide might have been more successful. But, they weren’t. The Jews have perservered and garnered the energy to reclaim the land that had been taken from them by force but for which they have prayed in synagogue each and every day sine the destruction of the Temple in the year 72. But you wouldn’t know or care about that. They did it without the “propping up” that you so historically inaccurately claim. Your ideas are obviously motivated by some kind of Jew-hatred and underpinned by some kind of useless anger. People have had to move from one place to another since time-immemorial. That’s called “history/” Germans had to en-mass relocate to Germany from East Prussia, Hindus from Bangla Desh to India, Jews from Spain and Portugal (not to mention Jews from Arab countries in numbers greater than Arabs from what was called Palestine). The list goes on and on. But, of course, you aren’t concerned with those migrations…That’s because you’re a Jew-hater and even history means nothing if it might get in your way.

  • Here is a silly question. Has any nation ever had to justify its existence in debate? Does one think that de-legitimizing the existence of a country make it go away? Nope.

    Like it or not, Israel was a creation of foreign imperialism. OK, now what? As was the US (and really all of the Western Hemisphere), all of Africa, Asia (except Japan), and Australia. That doesn’t mean that those countries have no right to exist or it is even up for debate. Nor does it mean that international relations need to be premised on discussion of such origins.

    If the Palestinians suffered a similar fate as the Jews in the Holocaust, we would not be having this conversation. They would either not exist in the region except as a pale memory or be scattered across the Middle East. The Palestinians made a lot of their own bad decisions which prevented official nationhood. I would be happy to discuss all of that in detail if asked.

  • Your stated wish that the Arabs had killed hundreds of thousands of Jewish men, women and children pretty much destroys the validity of anything you had to say. Thank you for forcefully tearing off the fig leaf covering the vast majority of anti-Israel politics: at its root is a hatred of the Jewish people. It’s something that sadly seems common in your brand of Christianity. We were here before you, we rejected your conversion attempts, and we’re still here. And that drives you absolutely fcking crazy. Deal with it.

  • I very much like some of Salkin’s articles, but not this one. Why? It shows that concern for Israel does not have to include any concern for indigenous people of the land of Israel who are not Jews. It shows that concern for Israel does not have to include concern for the rights and lives of those who live in the Occupied Territories.

    Objections to the form of Zionism that promotes inequality in an ethnically diverse nation and region should not be questioned or mislabeled so that people find no reason to listen to the objections. Mislabeling those objections with accusations ‘anti-Semitism’ are sometimes attempts to use the shaming of others to protect Israeli policies from legitimate criticisms.

    Now Salkin cited the following about Israel: ‘The only country whose legitimate attempts to defend its borders are met with scorn and cynicism..’ Defense of the extended borders of the Soviet Union were always questioned and successfully challenged. And, today, Russia’s invasion of Crimea is being challenged and questioned. That invasion was performed in the name defending Russia’s borders. Are the rights of the Palestinians to defend their border even acknowledged? And we need to ask the following: when Israel defends its borders, what happens to those non-Jews who live in the West Bank or Gaza?

    I fully agree that the Jewish people should not be passive in the face of oppression. But is Israel requiring that the Palestinians remain passive as Israel continues to change its borders or controls much of life for the Palestinians?

    When faulting Israel, we should remember that we are not faulting the Jewish people, we are faulting the actions and policies of a nation. Many Jews don’t feel represented by many of Israel’s actions. In addition, the faults demonstrated by the Israeli government are human faults that are shared by all governments, races and ethnic groups.

    If we are to celebrate those who want Israel to be an ethnocracy where Jewish values are celebrated to the domination over the values of all non-Jews in the land, should we also celebrate those white evangelicals who want America to be a land where white, conservative evangelical values reign and dominate over the values of all other groups? Should we celebrate those who want America to be a white Christian ethnocracy?

    The valid parts of what is defined as anti-Semitism are those that revolve around negative exceptionalism–negative traits that would give people permission to demote any Jew from being regarded as being human to being subhuman. For the demotion to being subhuman excuses all horrific atrocities. But some who are rightly vigilantly on guard for anti-Semitism overlook the fact that positive exceptioanalism can produce the same results as negative exceptionalism but where the not exceptional groups become demoted by default to a subhuman status by the promotion of a neighboring group.

    It seems that the first way to love any nation is to want that nation to do what is right to both its own people and others. And it seems that Salkin has forgotten that the land we call Israel is home to more than just the Jews. For it seems that he only believes in an Israel that celebrates the Jews only. Should we Americans believe in an America that celebrates only one of its groups like white evangelical Christians? Should any nation be allowed to celebrate only one of its groups or should Israel be the only nation that has the right to do that? Henry-Levi’s words answer that question: ‘the reminder that we do not live for ourselves alone..’ Perhaps Thomas Jefferson’s words do the same (see http://www.ushistory.org/us/20b.asp ):

    though the will of the majority is in all cases to prevail, that will,
    to be rightful, must be reasonable; that the minority possess their
    equal rights, which equal laws must protect, and to violate would be
    oppression

  • It isn’t a wish. I wouldn’t wish anyone to murder other people. It is the history of the Middle East since the end of WW2 and the establishment of the State of Israel. Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians have been murdered by those creating the State of Israel and since then. To deny that history is to bury your head in the sand.

    I don’t hate Jews. My brand of Christianity doesn’t hate Jews. My brand of Christianity works hand in hand with Jews, Muslims, all people of faith in seeking the Peace of God on the earth.

    My issue is with the modern State of Israel, how it came about, the people who dispossessed of their land, the people who were killed to enable the theft of their land and the people who continue to be mistreated and murdered by those occupying their land.

  • I’m not a Jew-hater. Your rabid discourse here doesn’t make it so. My issue isn’t with Jews, never was and never has been. My issue, as I stated plainly, is with the modern day State of Israel, how it came about and what was done to the Palestinian people to allow it to continue to exist.

    If you don’t believe that Israel would be there today without being supported by the West, you delude yourself. If the US didn’t arm Israel with modern weapons of war, the Arab nations would have succeeded in driving the Israelis into the sea. Israel has been supported by Western money and arms it’s entire existence since WW2.

  • So the people of the Jewish Holocaust can turn around and commit the Palestinian Holocaust?

    The Palestinians shouldn’t have had to make any decisions. They were living peacefully on their land. With the end of WW2 they were lied to, cheated, murdered and pushed out of their land.

    There isn’t anything to discuss, the history is there, plain and simple. You either admit what occurred or you lie about it to yourself and others.

  • I don’t think a Palestinian Holocaust has happened at all. You are using deliberately inflammatory and inaccurate wording for the situation.

    “The Palestinians shouldn’t have had to make any decisions. They were living peacefully on their land. With the end of WW2 they were lied to, cheated, murdered and pushed out of their land.”

    A common story. Same goes for the First Peoples, Etruscans, Formosans, Aborigines, Bedouins, Tauregs.. But it is made an irrelevance with the fact that a new nation exists populated by a different people. As I said before, no debate will make a nation disappear. No matter how much you want it to.

    “You either admit what occurred or you lie about it to yourself and others.”

    Oh I admit Palestinians (many of whom were trying to upend the UN decision to create the nation of Israel by force of arms with the help of Arab armies ) were forced off their lands. But I find it to be an irrelevancy in the here and now. So what? Israel exists. You can’t wish it away. You have to act like a mature adult now and deal with what comes next.

    The one thing working in favor of the Palestinians is the Arab League and Iran have lost interest in using them as proxy forces for attacking Israel. Both groups have focused on killing each other instead (See Yemen, Syria).

    But unfortunately self-determination doesn’t seem to be at the top of the agenda of their leadership. Between a thuggish Islamicist one in Gaza and a kleptocratic in the West Bank, they seem to have their own interests besides governance.

  • Palestinian Holocaust, Armenian Genocide, folks are on two sides as to whether they occurred. A holocaust doesn’t have to be in the millions and the end doesn’t justify the means, which is your argument. As to the Palestinian self-determination, how much role does Israel play in that. Presently, Israel’s corrupt leader sees some justification for his self-preservation to continue to feed that situation. Usually to take focus off of his personal misdeeds or to stay in power with a league of minority anti-Palestinian parties.

  • Of course it isn’t the exact same. It wasn’t in ancient times as well. Judaism has always adapted to it’s circumstances, whether captivity, occupation or disruption and dispersion. Rabbinic Judaism, of all it’s varieties today, exists mainly because of the destruction of the Jerusalem temple. And the Jerusalem Temple existed in its final importance, after the reformation and destruction of local Jewish temples/cultic worship structures.

  • David,
    Though I appreciate your up vote for my comment, I cannot return the favor. For one thing, your response to the article ignores some legitimate statements made in the article. For another, despite the horrific atrocities visited on the Palestinians by the Israeli government, to use the word Holocaust as point of comparison with what the Jews went through in Nazi Germany and what they went through before that seems misguided.

    the appropriate arrangement that could have been made during the advent of modern Zionism is that the Jews and the Palestinians would not only work to establish their own homeland, but that they would share the same homeland as equals. That might have been very difficult for Jews to do considering the horrendous persecution they suffered from Christian Europe. To a lesser degree, the Palestinians were emerging from 400 years of Turkish oppression that, according to what I have read and am aware of, doesn’t come close to what European Jews suffered. Both groups could have used their experiences of being oppressed to show empathy for each other. But instead, both groups used some of what they learned from their oppressors to battle each other. However, we know from Spiderman that with great power comes great responsibility. And the Israeli government has yet to learn that lesson.

    Yes, the Israeli government is guilty of a great number of horrific atrocities. But the number of those atrocities pale in comparison to the number of atrocities suffered by Jews at the hands of European Christians. And though those past atrocities don’t excuse the atrocities committed by the Israeli government, we should never remove that number of atrocities from the context of what is happening in Israel today.

  • Arbustin,
    I have not seen the research that confirms your claim that the vast majority of criticisms of Israeli politics is the result of hating Jews. This is especially true when Jews, even some Israeli Jews, criticize Israeli policies.

  • The upvote to your first comment was not by me. It was by a different David.

    So you lot are allowing that what happened to the Jews has now locked in the brand and forevermore, no one else’s tragedy can be named as a holocaust.

    Sadly, what we have here is what, in sociological terms we call horizontal violence. HV is where an oppressed group who cannot respond to their historic oppressors, vertical, strike another close oppressed group, horizontal, with violent treatment.

  • There isn’t anything logical or sane in what you spew here.

    BTW, I haven’t an anti-Jew bone in my body. My argument isn’t with Jews, it is with the State of Israel and the atrocities it has brought down upon and continues to bring down on the Palestinians.

  • My question was less about the mechanics, than the philosophical framework: That is, is modern Judaism biblical Judaism?

  • Mr. Allen…anti-semites never…ever…acknowledge hating “Jews.” They find some justification…always. Today’s anti-semites attempt to hide their Jew-hatred behind what they claim to be legitimate criticism of Israel. All the while, though, they treat Israel completely differently from the way they treat…or utterly ignore…EVERY other country. Hitler didn’t think of himself as an anti-semite, he thought he was doing what was “good for Germany.” You’ve already revealed yourself as an verified anti-semite, so…that ship has sailed. Some reflection on your part might be cleansing. What you deny is logical or sane, I’m afraid, is exactly…logical and sane. Clean your glasses.

  • Your name-calling would actually surprise my late Jewish boyfriend of four years. It would also surprise the gaggle of jewish couples who are still my friends. They are all aware of my feelings regarding Israel and most of them share those feelings. As a retired Christian clergy-person, still active in multi-faith organizations, the two Conservative (2 males), one Reform (female) and one Reconstructionist (female) rabbis, who consider themselves my friends, would also be surprised at your venom.

    I’m moving on from further responding to you vileness and pathological ignorance.

  • Well, and I want to tread carefully here (cultural biases can warp one’s perspective), Christians, having in a sense, appropriated the Old Testament (Our term) to their own theology (I speak advisedly here), tend to view the Hebrew scriptures as foretelling the New Testament. So far so good. In that view, as Christians we generally hold the Bible to be the direct Word of God speaking to all peoples for all time. In our enthusiasms we have historically stumbled on occasion into error and heresy, and quite frankly, persecution of Jews, and those with whom we have contended. But usually we hew back to the traditional holding, and endeavor to reconfirm our love towards our fellow creatures. I have rather sensed in my unscholarly perusal of the permutations of Judaism that the ancient Jews took a higher and more uncompromising view towards the scriptures than many forms of modern Judaism. Often it seems the Talmud, a rabbinical commentary, holds greater influence over the practice of Judaism today, than the original texts of the bible. Indeed, I’ve seen arguments from religious Jews that emphasize the philosophy of Jewish values (if you will), which, though ultimately derived from the Law, and worthy, take precedence over the Supernatural and Eternally abiding Nature of God. This troubles me; hence my original question. I have put this as carefully as I am able, with no disrespect intended, but rather as a means of expressing my concern about what lies at the very heart of the truth of God. I hope my reply satisfies your question, and in no way offends you, quite sincerely. Oh, and finally, though a bit windy, I really hope I have not sounded condescending.

  • David,
    Quite simply, the two are not comparable. What is somewhat comparable is how the Nazis took homes and businesses away from non-Jewish Poles and gave them to Ethnic German Poles. That is comparable to Israel taking land away from the Palestinians and giving it to settlers.

    However, not calling what has been happening to Palestine a Holocaust does not mean that Israel has not committed horrific atrocities against the Palestinians.

  • “Some of my best friends are Jewish!” Don;t you realize that’s the first refuge of an anti-semite?! You’re so silly! Roger Waters tried that one. The truth is, that there are a lot of Jews who feel the way you do. That doesn’t make them…or you…even a little right. Liberalism has become a new religion…it supersedes Judaism and Chritianity when it sinks in. I see it in my own synagogue.

    Like I said before…you’ve never been to Israel to see how that wonderful country accepts is Arab citizens who are full citizens…about 17-18% of the population. Until you go to see it for yourself, you really should stop calling my position “venom” and instead shut up about Israel the way you shut up about the Kurds…and Tibetans and any number of other Peoples who suffer far greater than the Palestinians. You’re living in a very toxic bubble and you’ve gotten comfortable there.

  • Curt, there’s nothing wrong with criticizing Israel. I do it all the time, on these pages. That is very different than David Allen’s comment, which trafficked in antisemitic tropes like “The Jews controlled the Western powers” and expressed a desire that it would have better the Arabs had driven the Jews into the sea. There’s a difference between fair criticism and virulent hate.

  • Thank you as always for your gracious post. First, the Talmud is an ancient Jewish document, not a modern one. While it was written down in late antiquity/early medieval-ity, the conversations recorded in it date back to before Jesus’s time.
    Second, and in that regard, your statement that the ancient Jews took a higher and more uncompromising view toward the Bible isn’t really accurate. Already in ancient times, just as one example, the rabbis had done to the biblical death penalty what modern courts have done to ours. And the Torah itself is a product of several distinct authors operating from different times and places. Many parts of it are at seeming odds with itself.
    Third, there is a rabbinic saying of the Torah: “Turn it and turn it, for all is in it.” The Torah is about more than just theology or the glory and kingdom of God. It is about the laws set forth in the document. It is a fundamental difference between Jesus and the rabbis, and between Christianity and post-70 CE Judaism, that one or the other should be emphasized at any given time. To Jews, every letter of the Torah, every jot and tittle as Jesus would say, matters. There are even some diacritical marks in the Masoretic text that have been given midrashic significance. In that regard, Judaism cannot countenance a view that only “the spirit of the law” matters. What does working on the Sabbath mean? Did God really just prohibit the cooking of a baby goat in its biological mother’s milk or is there some more significance to this otherwise one-off statement? What if, as in the portion of the Talmud I studied today, you go into a bathhouse and there’s a statue of Aphrodite in it? Do you have to leave on the basis of Ex. 20:3-5? This is what rabbinic discourse and the Talmud are all about.
    My overriding view of this is in accord with Rabbi Brad Hirschfield’s book title: “You Don’t Have to Be Wrong for Me to Be Right.” Our religions have a fundamental difference of opinion with regard to the Bible. For me that’s okay.
    Be well as always.

  • Sharpen your reading skills and read much more carefully. I never made either statement as you have twisted them. Nowhere did I claim that Jews controlled the Western powers, nor did I wish anyone to be driven into the sea.

  • I think that there is evidence that the philosophical framework of Judaism has changed a number of times through the centuries as represented by the various Jewish sects that emerged throughout history.

  • I see the personal attacks have come out. Is that how they taught you in seminary? Just more of the “love” reflected by your avatar? I did not twist anything you said. Your meaning was very plain.

  • “They were living peacefully on their land. With the end of WW2 they were lied to, cheated, murdered and pushed out of their land.”

    I suggest you go back and re-read history – preferably from other sources.

  • I agree that the framework has changed, my intent was to muse on whether such changes have been to Judaism’s benefit. As a non-Jew that might seem to Jewish people an impertinent surmise.

  • I do understand that the Talmud is venerable in the chronological sense, as well as in the philosophical sense. And I do appreciate the need for the parsing of a text to derive it’s broadest meaning. If the Torah appears “at seeming odds with itself,” then naturally, careful parsing would be in order. With no criticism meant, “You Don’t Have to Be Wrong for Me to Be Right,” as a philosophical statement is admirable for its flexibility, but makes me think of those times when I’ve tasted a favorite recipe with a key ingredient missing. 🙂

  • It’s not much of a personal attack on my part to encourage you to read better when you are making my comment to be about what it isn’t. Your statement, “Your meaning was very plain,” is the tell tale give away that you’re attempting to read between the lines what isn’t there.

  • “It is forbidden to be merciful to them. You must send missiles to them and annihilate them. They are evil and damnable. The Lord shall return the Arabs’ deeds on their own heads, waste their seed and exterminate them, devastate them and vanish them from this world.” — (Israel’s Chief Sephardic Rabbi, Ovadiah Yosef.) ♦ “waste their seed” is a reference to Palestinian children. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1270038.stm

    800,000 Israelies, or 16 percent of the Jewish population of that country—turned up to pay their respects at the funeral Chief Sephardic Rabbi of Israel, Ovadiah Yosef, making it the largest funeral in Israeli history. The man they chose to honour promoted wholesale genocide of the Palestinians. http://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-closes-down-for-rabbi-ovadia-yosefs-funeral/

  • Speaking of virulent hate, the views of former Chief Sephardic Rabbi of Israel, Ovadiah Yosef, were republished by the official Jewish Telegraphic Agency http://www.jta.org/2010/10/18/news-opinion/israel-middle-east/sephardi-leader-yosef-non-jews-exist-to-serve-jews
    ♦ “Goyim were born only to serve us. Without that, they have no place in the world; only to serve the People of Israel.”
    ♦ “Why are gentiles needed? They will work, they will plow, they will reap. We will sit like an effendi and eat,” he said to laughter during a weekly sermon.
    ♦ “With gentiles, it will l be like any person: They need to die, but God will give them longevity. Why? Imagine that one’s donkey would die, they’d lose their money. This is his servant. That’s why he gets a long life, to work well for this Jew.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-cheif-rabbi-black-people-monkeys-yitzhak-yosef-talmud-sephardic-a8267666.html
    One of Israel’s chief rabbis, Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef, called black people “monkeys” during his weekly sermon. During his weekly sermon, the rabbi used a derogatory Hebrew term for a black person, before going on to call a black person a “monkey,” according to footage published by the Ynet news site.

  • On December 12th 1916, Germany, although they were winning the war and not one foreign soldier had set foot on their soil, offers armistice to Britain with no requirement of reparations. The Jewish Rothschilds’ are anxious to make sure this is not accepted by the British so whilst the British are considering Germany’s offer, Rothschild agent Louis Brandeis sends a Zionist delegation from America to Britain to promise to bring America into the war on the side of the British, provided the British agree to give the land of Palestine to the Rothschilds’.

    The British subsequently agree to the deal for Palestine and the Zionists in London contact their counterparts in America and inform them of this fact. Suddenly all the major newspapers in America that up to that point had been pro-German turn on Germany, running propaganda pieces to manipulate the American public against the Germans, such as: German soldiers are killing Red Cross Nurses; and, German soldiers are cutting off babies hands. The British Foreign Secretary, Arthur James Balfour, a Jew, therefore drafts a letter which is commonly known as the, “Balfour Declaration,” which is reprinted below.

    Foreign Office
    November 2nd, 1917

    Dear Lord Rothschild,

    I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty’s Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.

    His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

    I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

    Yours sincerely,

    Arthur James Balfour

  • Page 3, 1980 Jewish Almanac: “Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an Ancient Israelite a Jew or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew.” https://media.christogenea.org/images/wmfinck/1980-jewish-almanac-page-jewish-identity https://www.amazon.com/Jewish-Almanac-Richard-Siegel/dp/0553012657

    Jews began to call themselves Hebrews and Israelites in 1860″ (Encyclopedia Judaica 1971 Vol 10:23). “Edom is in modern Jewry,” (Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition, Vol.5, p.41)

    “The Edomites were conquered by John Hycarnus who forcibly converted them to Judaism, and from then on they constituted a part of the Jewish people, Herod being one of their descendants.” [The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia, New Revised Edition, 1966] https://christogenea.org/system/files/resources/StandardJewishEnc-Edom.PDF

    https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/112514/jewish/Hasdai-Ibn-Shaprut.htm
    “Hasdai ibn Shaprut, who was foreign minister to Abd-al-Rahman, Sultan of Cordova, in his letter to King Joseph of the Chazars (about 960 AD) … speaks of the tradition according to which the Chazars once dwelt near the Seir Mountains.” (Encyclopedia Judaica, Vol. 6, p. 372) Genesis 36:9 And these are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in mount Seir:

  • Contemporary Jewry does NOT descend from the Biblical 12 Tribes of Israel. — Modern Jewry is primarily descended from Edomites [referred to as Idumeans by the Greeks & Romans] who were forcibly converted to Judaism by the Hasmonean leader Johanan Hycarnus in 130BC, as recorded by historian Flavius Josephus in “Antiquities of the Jews” Book 13: Chapter 9, Section 1: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook%3D13%3Awhiston+chapter%3D9%3Awhiston+section%3D1
    Hyrcanus took also Dora, and Marissa, cities of Idumea, and subdued all the Idumeans; and permitted them to stay in that country, if they would circumcise their genitals, and make use of the laws of the Jews; and they were so desirous of living in the country of their forefathers, that they submitted to the use of circumcision, and of the rest of the Jewish ways of living; at which time therefore this befel them, that they were hereafter no other than Jews.

    Greek geographer, philosopher, and historian Strabo further testifies to the colonisation of Judea by Edomite converts to Judaism in Geography [Book 16 Chapter 2 Section 34]. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0239%3Abook%3D16%3Achapter%3D2%3Asection%3D34

    Apostle John [Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9] speaks about impostors who “say they are Jews, and are not” labelling them the “synagogue of Satan.” Romans 9:13 “As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.” The Prophet Obadiah foretells the extermination of Esau’s Edomite offspring, [which Modern Jewry descends from] in Obadiah 1:9, Obadiah 1:18.

  • I do respect your historical references but frankly I’d quarrel with them. To make that brief, John’s references are, as it is more recently noted by some respected historians, at least in significant part, to “institutionalize” a stark separation between Jews and gentiles…something not at all so clear in other Books of the New Testament. So, “his” references may well not be so objective in the characterizations he employs, or indeed, true historical markers. But, that isn’t to criticize your knowledge. My point in posting was to make it clear that Jews…the Jews of history (without regard to biblical claims) have been long attached to the land on which Israel is seated. Their forced departure from that land was repeated in history, most recently, definitively with Rome’s “Jewish Wars,” and whether the Jews at that time were known commonly as “Judeans” or as “Jews.” is of no moment. Those who deny this flunk at history. That ignorance can have its provenance in a failure to be at all concerned with the falsity behind the historical/political arguments that seem to proliferate these days against Israel’s right to exist…or…that ignorance can be, more egregiously, born of a wanton disregard of actual history together with a willingness to even pervert history to further those specious anti-Israel positions. (e.g. The UN’s declaration that Jerusalem, Hebron, etc. are “Muslim’ to the exclusion of Jewish historical connection.) In either event, this cynical “ignorance” of history and efforts at its perversion are motivated by an singularly anti-Jewish perspective. It is motivated by a peculiar willingness to treat Israel differently from the manner in which the history of ALL other nations are treated…employing, well…HISTORY. This idiocy is recognized by reasonable people to be anti-semitism.

  • What no link to the site of your cut and paste?

    Why are Neo-Nazis so big on obviously phony quotemining and cutting and pasting without attribution?

    What are you so embarrassed of?

  • If a Palestinian Holocaust happened, the depopulated areas would have been incorporated into Israel proper. As what happened in every genocide which existed. It means you are arguing about a ideological fiction.

    The entire “Right of Return” was a PLO/Arab League scheme to demographically overwhelm Israel through the GROWING population of the Palestinians.

    “As to the Palestinian self-determination, how much role does Israel play in that. Presently, Israel’s corrupt leader sees some justification for his self-preservation to continue to feed that situation.”

    Please be specific as to how Israel enables Abbas? They certainly do nothing of the sort for Hamas in Gaza. At best Israel simply lets the kleptocrat continue due to lack of concern and lack of authority. Its not their job and they don’t care.

    Frankly I would be happy for a 2-3 state solution with a functional Palestinian State. Oslo had a good chance of working had Arafat been upfront about the civil war brewing among his own people. The best hope for peace isn’t coming from apologists and supporters of kleptocracy and Islamicism. It is coming from the lack of interest by the neighboring powers in continuing conflict with Israel even in proxy versions.

  • No Evidence from Genome-Wide Data of a Khazar
    Origin for the Ashkenazi Jews

    https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1040&context=humbiol_preprints

    The Khazar Myth and the New Anti-Semitism
    http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/front-page/the-khazar-myth-and-the-new-anti-semitism/2007/05/09/

    Nearly every anti-Semitic and neo-Nazi website denounces Zionists and Israelis as “Khazars.” Web chat lists in which Jews defending Israel are dismissed as “Khazar usurpers” are too numerous to count.

    The racialism once again in vogue holds that Jews would only have legitimate claims to the right of self-determination in their homeland if they were appropriately Semitic from a racial point of view. Palestine is part of the Semitic racial lebensraum and those who do not possess the correct pure racial markings have no business being there. Racial purity is suddenly the new basis for national rights.

    I discovered scores of neo-Nazi websites claiming that “Khazar Zionists” were really behind the 9/11 attacks. I found thousands of websites claiming that “Khazar Jew-pretenders” are in a conspiratorial league with Freemasons, the Vatican, the Illuminati and others to control the world.

    Khazar conspiracists get nuttier by the day; a widely cited Ku Klux Klan website claims that the pro-Israel evangelist Pat Robertson is really a Khazar Jew. The neo-Nazi American Patriots Friends Network claims Khazars are themselves descended from the Magog race and secretly control America.

    If we take the racialist argument to its logical conclusion, Palestinian Arabs have the right to exercise all claims to sovereignty in Israel due to their being true racial Jews, while Zionists are non-Jewish Khazars – racial imposters and usurpers.

    To make things even sillier, Arabs themselves are, of course, a mix of racial strains, with a particularly large Caucasian component thanks to Arab intermixing with Spanish and Italian Europeans, Caucasian Berbers, Vandals, Goths, and even some Vikings.

    The racialist delegitimizing of Zionism as “Khazar imperialism” is smack inside the same insane asylum with the “Jesus was a Palestinian” theory and the claim that all real Jews (from a racial point of view) converted to Islam after the Arab conquest of Palestine in the 7th century and so became Palestinian Arabs.

  • If you read my comment Avrumeleh B above, as well as the comment you replied to, you will see that my main argument, quoting Jewish Historian, Flavius Josephus, and referencing Greek geographer and historian, Strabo, as well as The Standard Jewish Encyclopedia, New Revised Edition, 1966 and Jewish Encyclopedia, 1925 edition, Vol.5, p.41 is that modern Jewry is primarily descended from Edomite converts to Judaism, NOT the biblical 12 tribes of Israel. Regarding the Khazar theory, I agree with you, that today’s Jews are not the descendants of Khazar converts to Judaism, although some of them undeniably have some degree of Khazar admixture, but in my opinion, [and in Dr David Duke’s (PhD History) opinion) it is quite small, indeed as Dr David Duke explains, Jewish radical Arthur Koestler, who wrote the book entitled, “The Thirteenth Tribe,”
    which more than any other that advanced the “Khazar theory,” did so because he thought it would advance the interests of the Jewish people. So, for once, you and David Duke, agree on something it seems! LOL! https://davidduke.com/khazar-theory-koestler-admitted-wrote-book-jewish-interests/

    Arthur Koestler’s official biography, written by Michael Scammell, specifically quotes him on why he wrote “The Thirteenth Tribe.”His argument was that if he could persuade people that a non-Jewish “Khazar” heritage formed the basis of modern Jews, then this would be a weapon against European racially based anti-Semitism. “Should this theory be confirmed, the term ‘anti-Semitism’ would become void of meaning,” he said. According to Scammell, Koestler told French biologist Pierre Debray-Ritzen he “was convinced that if he could prove that the bulk of Eastern European Jews were descended from the Khazars, the racial basis for anti-Semitism would be removed and anti-Semitism itself could disappear.” (Source: Scammell, Michael. Koestler: The Literary and Political Odyssey of a Twentieth-Century Skeptic, Random House, 2009, ISBN 978-0-394-57630-5, p. 546.)

    Arthur Koestler was a signed up member of the Communist Party of Germany prior to World War II, supported the Jewish Bolshevik mass murderer Bela Kuhn (Cohen) in Hungary, and also ran the Secretariat of Ze’ev Jabotinsky’s Zionist Revisionist Party in Berlin. He only left the Communist International after the Hitler-Stalin Pact of 1939 (as did many other Jewish Communists after the Jews lost power under Stalin). https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3342999,00.html

  • Professor Godwin stated very clearly last year that his maxim doesn’t hold up when discussing actual neo nazi / white supremacist nonsense. He even went out of his way to call the brain donors in Charlotttesville nazis. 🙂

  • Quote mining is really the more honest way to put it. Taking quotes out of context or in isolation to pretend a position not really taken when one has read it in entirety. None of those sources allegedly cited by you stand for such a proposition.

    You got the references from a neo nazi site which put them together for you. It’s a fairly common tactic. Not fooling anyone given your lack of any link to a source which coherently drawing such a conclusion. You are the second neo nazi liar to pretend to quote book sources to hide the online reference they cribbed from. One you are obviously ashamed to link to directly.

    It’s a given you are lying and you do nothing to present yourself. In a credible manner. By all means link to an actual academic source which makes your assertion. Otherwise, don’t waste our time with such ham handed backdated nonsense antics.

  • Nice strawman, but Professor Godwin’s statement that his maxim doesn’t hold up when discussing actual neo nazi / white supremacist nonsense, doesn’t apply to my post, as I never mentioned any white supremacist literature, nor any literature published by the Third Reich, what I quoted and referenced were the Jewish Historian Flavius Josephus , Greek Geographer Strabo , and 5 passages from the bible, namely, Rev 2:9, Rev 3:9, Romans 9:13, Obadiah 1:9 and Obadiah 1:18, therefore, Godwin’s Law of Nazi analogies indeed applies to your comment.

  • Too bad you aren’t really quoting them. You are cribbing from a neo nazi source and are too spineless to own up to it. It is a common affliction to your type.

    You won’t link to an actual academic source to support you conclusion. So you are just going to waste my time. Sorry buddy. You need to troll better. This is just too predictable stupid. Bye bye.

  • I included the links to the quotes from the Tufts University website in my original comment to Avrumeleh B, and I also embedded the same links in my reply to you, as anyone can see by simply scrolling up and reading my posts (thereby helping readers understand what a liar you are). I’ll post the links again below.

    Tufts University [Massachusetts] Flavius Josephus: “Antiquities of the Jews” Book 13: Chapter 9, Section 1. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook%3D13%3Awhiston+chapter%3D9%3Awhiston+section%3D1

    Tufts University [Massachusetts] Strabo: “Geography” Book 16 Chapter 2 Section 34. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Strab.+16.2.34&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0239

    Revelation 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+2%3A9&version=KJV

    Revelation 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+3%3A9&version=KJV

    Genesis 36:9 And these are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites in mount Seir: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+36%3A9&version=KJV

    Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+9%3A13&version=KJV

    Obadiah 1:9 And thy mighty men, O Teman, shall be dismayed, to the end that every one of the mount of Esau may be cut off by slaughter. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Obadiah+1%3A9&version=KJV

    Obadiah 1:18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for the Lord hath spoken it. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Obadiah+1:18&version=KJV

  • Your reply completely overlooks the historical records of Jewish Historian Flavius Josephus, “Antiquities of the Jews” Book 13: Chapter 9, Section 1, and Strabo “Geography” Book 16 Chapter 2 Section 34, which document the 130BC forced conversion of the Edomites to Judaism by Hasmonean leader Johanan Hycarnus. Even prior to 130BC, the Kingdom of Judea was already a mere shadow of its former self, inhabited by only a tiny remnant of the Israelites, as most had been deported by Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar II starting with the deportation of 10,000 Israelites in 597BC, (2 Kings 24:14) followed by the deportation of a sizeable portion of Judea’s population in 587BC, (2 Chronicles 36:20, 2 Kings 25:11-12, Jeremiah 39:9-10) with ONLY 42,360 of these Israelites ever returning to Jerusalem & Judea (Ezra 2:64-65). This small remnant of Israelites in Judea, was subsequently submerged by Edomite converts to Judaism, following Johanan Hycarnus’ forced conversion of Edom/Idumea to Judaism in 130BC, See Tufts University [Massachusetts] Flavius Josephus: “Antiquities of the Jews” Book 13: Chapter 9, Section 1. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook%3D13%3Awhiston+chapter%3D9%3Awhiston+section%3D1

    Tufts University [Massachusetts] Strabo: “Geography” Book 16 Chapter 2 Section 34. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Strab.+16.2.34&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0239

  • So you have nothing here. Quotemining and giving me bullcrap excuses. No link from a source drawing the conclusion you made. Oh well. Thanks for playing. Bye bye.

  • “Creator of Godwin’s law: ‘It’s OK to call Charlottesville white supremacists Nazis'”

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/08/15/creator-godwins-law-ok-call-charlottesville-white-supremacists/

    You reference white supremacist/ neo nazi positions as my links indicated. You are just too spineless to attribute them. Because it is obvious the goal here is trolling. Not a rational, factually supported position. You are not the first person to play this ploy. You won’t be the last.

  • Tufts University [Massachusetts] Flavius Josephus: “Antiquities of the Jews” Book 13: Chapter 9, Section 1. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0146%3Abook%3D13%3Awhiston+chapter%3D9%3Awhiston+section%3D1
    Hyrcanus took also Dora, and Marissa, cities of Idumea, and subdued all the Idumeans; and permitted them to stay in that country, if they would circumcise their genitals, and make use of the laws of the Jews; and they were so desirous of living in the country of their forefathers, that they submitted to the use of circumcision, and of the rest of the Jewish ways of living; at which time therefore this befel them, that they were hereafter no other than Jews.

    Tufts University [Massachusetts] Strabo: “Geography” Book 16 Chapter 2 Section 34. http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Strab.+16.2.34&fromdoc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0239
    The western extremities of Judæa towards Casius are occupied by Idumæans, and by the lake [Sirbonis]. The Idumæans are Nabatæans. When driven from their country by sedition, they passed over to the Jews, and adopted their customs.

  • Sorry, not buying that lame story. Your conclusion came right out of the Neo-Nazi propaganda wing. You did not come across those references on your own. You are a lying troll. Better luck next time.

  • You never perused jewishvirtuallibrary either. Nor do the make the ultimate claim you did. You can stop lying. All you do is cut and paste second hand from neo nazi sources. It’s too obvious and you are too stupid to preend otherwise.

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